I hereby call this special workshop meeting of the Board of Trustees of the Katy Independent School District to order. Today is Wednesday, August 26, 2015 and the time is 544 p.m. Mr. Fraley, will you verify that we're in compliance with the provisions of the Texas Open Meeting Act with regard to the notice for this meeting? We are in compliance.
Katy ISD · Special Meeting
Katy ISD Special Meeting, August 26, 2015
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- 0:00 to 0:38 Items 1 & 2 1. Call to Order – Upon announcement by the presiding officer that a quorum is present, the meeting will be called to order. 2. Verification of Compliance with the Provisions of the Open Meetings Act 2.1 The Superintendent will verify that the provisions of the Open Meetings Act, Section 551.001 et seq. of the Texas Government Code were met in accordance with the public notice of the meeting.
- 0:38 to 1:19:36 Item 3 (Part 1 of 2) & Executive Session 3. Discussion – No action will be taken at this meeting. 3.1 Governance team building (Board and Superintendent), reviewing the roles, rights, and responsibilities of the Board. 3.2 Board self-assessment and self-evaluation of the Board's performance in fulfilling its duties and responsibilities. 3.3 Review of the district Vision, Mission, and Goals. 3.4 Review of progress in development of community partnerships. 3.5 Review of legislative issues. 3.6 Review of Board Operating Procedures. 4. Closed Meeting – Closed Meeting may be held for the purposes authorized by the Texas Open Meetings Act, Texas Government Code Section 551.001 et seq. concerning any and all purposes permitted by the Act, including but not limited to the sections and purposes listed below. If, during the course of the meeting, discussion of any item on the agenda should be held in a Closed Meeting, the Board will conduct a Closed Meeting in accordance with the Texas Open Meetings Act, Chapter 551, Subchapters D and E. 4.1 Texas Government Code 551.074: For the purpose of considering the appointment, employment, evaluation, reassignment, duties, discipline or dismissal of a public officer or employee or to hear complaints or charges against a public officer or
- 1:19:36 to 2:58:24 Item 3 (Part 2 of 2) & Item 5 3. Discussion – No action will be taken at this meeting. 3.1 Governance team building (Board and Superintendent), reviewing the roles, rights, and responsibilities of the Board. 3.2 Board self-assessment and self-evaluation of the Board's performance in fulfilling its duties and responsibilities. 3.3 Review of the district Vision, Mission, and Goals. 3.4 Review of progress in development of community partnerships. 3.5 Review of legislative issues. 3.6 Review of Board Operating Procedures. 5. Adjournment
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Items 1 & 2
We need to all speak in the microphone. This meeting is being recorded. We only have three mics at the table so if you want to speak we need to well we asked if you even speak allowed the much won't pick them up unfortunately we got to pass them around today's a meeting we're going to go through a section 3 the discussion item 3.1 governance team building 3.2 board assessment and self-evaluation 3.3 review of the district vision mission and goals 3.4 view of progress and development of community partnerships, 3.5 review of legislative issues, and 3.6 review of board operating procedures. We have Mr. Bill Rutherford who I've had the privilege of watching run meetings at TASB.
Item 3 (Part 1 of 2) & Executive Session
He's helped us here as a district multiple times and he's even did a leadership Katie to talk about board stuff, how board operates, our procedures, and what we do and what we don't do.
probably the best facilitator that we could ask for it's totally up to you building it up man build it up I'm gonna turn this mic but though it sir you have the flutter yes sir very good very good god this feels really weird I had one just hold board members my pleasure to be with you this afternoon Charles is right I think I've been with you what six times maybe seven times over the last four years something like that so we've got a pretty long relationship always a pleasure to come back nice to see new board members for those of you who are new let me give you a little back my background and then we'll get into the topic of tonight I have been working at task for 10 years now doing board training also happen to have the leadership task you program and in my background I'm actually a former school board member I've never been a superintendent don't ever want to be a superintendent I'm perfectly happy with what I do but I was on the board in Odessa for nine years and I served as president for three of those nine years and I will tell you also board members when I reflect back on my nine-year your experience as a board member? Probably seven of those were wonderful years. Absolutely wonderful years. Two of those, the final two, were not quite so pleasant. And the one thing I always mention to a board when I'm working with them is never take election night for granted.
Everything that you know, everything that you're working on, everything that you've had in the pipeline to finish on out can turn on an election night. And that was certainly our case in Odessa. We had one of those weird situations where we had four incumbents up at the same time, and we already knew one was not going to run for re-election. So that was one new person on the team. I felt relatively confident about the strength of the other three, and the election proved to be totally different. And, I mean, they quickly counted hands, and they realized the four new ones had more hands than the three old guard and their first assignment as a group was to replace all the officers to abolish our board operating procedure and pedal to the metal off they went second meeting they fired the superintendent I've always alleged and even went to the DA on this in Odessa I counted at least seven illegal meetings they had in the the build -up for that.
To the point they even confessed on the phone that this had happened.
But that's beyond the point.
My point with you is, had we known then what was going to have happened,
we would have gone harder, faster those other seven years. Because the last two, we were not even in neutral, we were in reverse. That's a tragic thing. Very, very tragic thing. Our mission tonight is to complete your annual state of Texas required team building training session and you know the law in Texas is very prescriptive about your board training requirement your continuing education requirement and this is one of those sessions that is required by law that has to be in attendance as much as humanly possible with all members of the board and including the superintendent putting together the team if you will of the leadership at Katy ISD you've heard me say this before but I want to come back to it especially for the two that are new to my sessions I'm one of those who does not believe that this is called a team of eight training I don't believe that I think it's a team of two if you can put seven elected board members together on the same page working with the one superintendent that's a dynamic relationship relationship. When you two off, and if you look at districts around the state of Texas, where you have a strong supportive board and you have a strong, vibrant superintendent, and the same thing filters through the entire district, you look at that relationship and that's what you want to emulate. That's a team of two. When you say to me, oh no, Bill, this is, everybody calls this a team of eight training, don't you? Yeah, I know that. But team of eight is going to suggest that all eight of you are equal.
And that's not true.
That's not true. You have seven lay leaders, KDISD, and one educational professional. Already you're not equal. And then you look at the relationship of the seven to the one. The The one has seven employers. Already, that's not an equal relationship. So let's dispense with that whole myth of eight, whether it's a team of two. Seven together working with the one superintendent, that's a dynamic team, a very, very dynamic team. What I want to do with you today is really something kind of new. The law says in Texas that you have to have a three-hour team-building training session, and it must focus on roles, responsibilities, and then the term rights was added to the law when the state board met in August of last year. So roles, responsibilities, and rights, so three R's of a team building training session. And typically that, and the law also goes so far as to say not only must it be at least three hours in length, all members must be present, all members must participate, roles, responsibility and rights and he goes on to say and it must cover the framework for school board development which I'm going to hand to in just a little bit and what I'd like to do if I can if I can be so bold Charles as mr. president to ask do you mind turning your computers off shut the screen down thank you thank you thank you I don't want you to find the answers before I get to the questions I don't know what you're gonna try to do so so let's go without that But the law says you must also focus in on that framework for school board development, which you all know, those of you who are veterans on the board, you know it is essentially your job description. Written by the State Board of Education in 1996, adopted as the job description for board members, and then codified by the law, by the legislation in the 2009 session. So we are required tonight to go over and spend some time looking at your roles, responsibilities, and rights as a school board member in Texas because it is policy from the state board it's also statute from the Texas legislature so we're gonna spend the entire bulk of our time on that tonight I'm gonna try something different with you you know if you spend too much time looking at the framework you're gonna drift off on me before I get halfway through before I get a fourth of the way through it so we're gonna try to do something a little bit bit different with that and also comply with the law. Okay.
When I ask you to do some role playing, okay, not threatening. I'm not one of those when I do, I can't stand going to a session and you role play. I don't do that. I'm one of those, I don't even like, you know, when the person with the mic, and I still feel so goofy with this thing on, says, turn the person on your left and tell them that's your favorite vacation holiday. Turn the person on the person on your right tell them that your favorite animal uh-uh I don't want to know the person on my left and I think you don't care about the person on my right you know that's that's just not the way I operate so I will not do that with you all right and it doesn't even know me you know I don't do that I don't play those games but I do want to kind of set up something looking at your roles and responsibilities from a very very different angle all right and I I won't preface it with, board members, this will only work if you're willing to be gut-level honest.
If you can't be honest, then let's shut this puppy down, Mr. President, and I'll go back to the hotel. This is going to work based on the degree to which you can be reflectively honest about the KDISD board. We're not talking generic tonight. We're talking about y 'all. Okay?
That said, you know this next year, next academic year, your schools and your school district will be given a letter grade.
And although we got a one -year reprieve from part of that, it's going into effect the 16-17 academic year. And so all across
KDISD there's gonna be the label of an A through F on campuses hopefully not F's but on campuses across the district and I can hardly wait to see board members from around the state of Texas show up at state convention in Dallas next year with their district shirts on you know Bill Rutherford, I can hardly wait to see how many water towers across rural Texas are going to be scrubbed real good. You know, that's not at least an A grade or whatever the case might be. But that's the law. That's where we are. So step one tonight. You got a piece of paper, you got something to write on. No discussion. No asking me questions. No deliberation. No pausing. A through F on that piece of paper, what grade do you think this school district is? No questions? No clarifying answers? A through F, write it on a piece of paper and hand me the paper.
Sharon, if I don't trip over there, I'm going to trip here on this. that will count also and I haven't tripped yet so isn't that good the only one that's that way all right to maintain the anonymity of everyone else do you need some music as you open up those cards perhaps I need an auditor here to make certain my tally is correct so what we have what you say you are they're actually five of you give the district the board we're not talking about the district we're talking about this board I'm sorry did I I'm sorry wrong Madonna get another piece of paper yeah yeah yeah my bad my bad a through F what is the grade of this board a through F what is the grade of this board and thank you for rec correcting me no pluses no minus no clarifying questions a through F what's the grade of the board notice now you're a little more secretive
although the foals are a little bit
all right so the whole night is our next three hours are going to look at the roll of the board this board we need to get a starting point
wow man you're all over the place
okay let me just show you what you came up with and then we're going to come up with what we think is a composite grade this point you have a's you have two 2, B's you have 2, C's you have 2, and you have 1D.
All right, so if this were, and let's remember, this is 100% fictitious. TA is never going to do this, all right? I shouldn't say that, should I? The likelihood is remote that TA is going to do this, but the likelihood is remote that TA is going to do an awful lot of what we think they ought to do too, right? This is my creation. It's not theirs. It is just a way for us to look at roles and responsibilities. If this is the grade splattered across, what do you think the average grade is? And I don't pretend to be a mathematician. No pluses, no minuses. C? B? So let's go, no pluses, no minuses.
B. All right. So let's work with that.
You self -report, TEA asks for a self -report on the grade of the board. If the schools are going to be graded directly reflecting upon teachers, directly reflecting upon principals, directly reflecting relating to children, administration, they come in and say, board you do yourself. And so all of a sudden KDIC turns in a grade of a B.
TA says, not so certain about that. They do an investigation. They want to look at your data.
And your data are directly related to your understanding and working with your roles and responsibilities directly from the framework not how good do I feel or how badly do I feel but how did you come up with this grade of a B so TA sends in their investigative team and they say now then here's the investigation you're going to continue to self-report I want you to be the auditor and just maybe don't write you'll know what you're doing
MTA says just as our campuses and our districts will be evaluated and rated based on five domains coincidentally board members there are five domains in in your roles and responsibilities. And I've listed those on this piece of paper. You've told me, told TEA, that you are a B. They say, now then, we need you to justify it. So what I want you to do on this piece of paper, once again, no clarifying questions, no assumptions, no questions. Those of you who are new, don't tell me you're too new to do this. No, you don't. You have an opinion already. Otherwise, you wouldn't be on the board. With each one of those, give yourself a grade. Give the board a grade. A if you believe the work of the board has been exceptional, B if you think it's acceptable, C if you think it's adequate, D if you think it needs improvement, and F if you think that area is where the board has a failure.
And don't try to force the grade you first gave. Just let it flow organically.
Okay, everybody grading? Anybody not?
Investigating teams here, ready to collect the data.
Now let's just see where you say you are. Once again, based on this really surface-level investigation, I should use that word, interrogation perhaps, of your own understanding of what your roles and responsibilities are. So I'm going to give it to Bonnie. and Bonnie would you please tell me under vision what are the grades
B is in boy another B a C and another a I'm what would you call that composite great solid B s 3b okay all right Bonnie instruction okay a B a second B and a a
a B D as dog thank you D and another D or just one I'm sorry a B and another B
I'm gonna call that a solid B would you agree the board provides a guidance and direction from a cup for accomplishing the vision so our collective score there is a B okay mr. accountability another C and a a D a B and a B okay I'm gonna say these two cancel out is that okay what do you think a B okay notice the range though Bonnie what was that would you read that one again please accountability the board measures and communicates how well the vision is being accomplished remember these are the five basic pillars in that 2009 law that describes your job description these are also the if you will the policy statements out of the State Board of Education that we the board members of with the trustees of boards across Texas will blah blah blah okay but advocacy going under advocacy the board promotes the vision so this is your you're writing how well you promote the vision.
We have a C, a B, I'm sorry, an A.
That's advocacy, right? Oh, I'm sorry, A, that's right.
A C, a B, an A.
We have a C, an A.
Okay, hold on to this one.
A C, no B, so mark the B.
Okay. then we have a C we have a B which is this one a C a C and an A and a composite score C okay let's do unity please unity the board works with the superintendent to lead the district toward the vision first one is a D a C a B a C a B C and a B it looks like a scene all All right, so now then you have submitted these data to TEA, and TEA looks at that and a little bit curious, a little bit curious as to really the range in here and the pop-up of two Cs based on your self-reporting of a B, based on your understanding and your application and your job duties and how well and how thoroughly you do those. So now T.E.A. is as only T.E.A. can do. You know, you fed the beast a little bit, and the more you feed the beast, the hungrier the beast gets. And T.E.A. says, hmm, we need to send a full team down there to Katie. Smells like El Paso ISD to me. You know, it's too close to Beaumont not to have some smell around there from that board down there so they send their team down and as is typical the case with TEA there is yet another form for you to complete at this point they're going to audit you and they're going to want to know how did you come up with these particular grades that you gave based on the fact that your initial report was a B.
This is front and back.
and this is where I did not want you to look in your computer I'm not sharing you reading
I didn't trip part of a team-building activities I'm required to give you this document I did not give it to you at first because I want you to get into this activity here is the framework for school board development here is the law my friends if you will board members these are your teaks now if you'll open that page up and look at the light brown or tan whatever color the paper is I gave to you underneath the pillar vision you should see a series of bullets those bullets should line up identically if it's correct with this page a through F all right now what T is asking for is for board members you to go over eat This will be time-consuming, I know, but this is the heart of the activity. You're to go over each of those bullets and write down by each bullet, one, if it's a board failure, two, if you think improvement is needed, three, if you think it's adequate, four, acceptable, five, exceptional. After you've done that, you see the next thing is your average. Go ahead and record the average and go to structure.
That clears none.
I think as you're working on this board members this is your job description and And so if you get to one and you don't know, I think you have to grade yourself pretty low. Because you should know. And if you don't know if you do it or not, it's going to be a low grade.
Thank you for sitting there.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
what members is Brian pointed out under unity I only have seven bullet points but they're eight on the framework so be sure and add an H
Thank you.
Thank you.
Those of you who are double checking your math, you're over achievers for this.
Not.
Finished. finished? Courtney, you finished? I'm finished. Joe, you finished. Okay. All right, here's what let's do. I want you to keep the page there because this is where we're going to get into some discussion. Let's start, though, by let's not go around the room because I don't want, I want to try this with as much anonymity as we possibly can with a small group, okay? But I I don't want to think that the first one each and every time is Joe Adams. Let's just kind of go around and just kind of someone start. Just give me what your averages were.
Your average. Four? I want all numbers up here. Yeah.
No, you can't play. Brian, start. What was your vision? Structure. accountability I would go 3.5 yeah who was advocacy unity for okay Ashley
Okay. Charles.
Okay.
Courtney.
Yeah, that's fine.
Okay.
Joe?
Joe?
All right. Oh, Henry, did I leave you out? Go ahead, Henry. I'm so sorry.
Unity. Unity. What was your advocacy?
Okay.
So accountability was five. Was four, four, and four. Got it, got it, got it. All right. Keep these sheets out. What I want you to do is let's take vision first. It was pretty consistent. I think even I can average that one.
You gave yourself a better B on that one. Let's look under vision. Go down the long sheet, the framework, and I want you to use that with your score sheet too. And I want you to pick out, if you can, the two that you thought the board scored the highest in and make a note of those. Just a little star or something. And then the two areas that you that you noted where you thought the board scored the lowest where you gave the board the lowest So in each category each of these You're going to tag for dip possibly four different sub points with each one Let's see where those are
I think what let's do, let's do vision first and talk that and then let you loose on the others. I think that makes a little more sense. Pick out your top two and your weakest two. Brian, what were yours? Let's do top. Let's do top.
Okay, what were your fives? No, no, give me the letter alpha okay see any okay okay Henry and F Charles yes sir
Courtney yes sir okay let's take a look at a and C these are the two areas in your job description that you're saying this board does an exceptional job in keeps Keeps the district focused on educational welfare of all children.
C then would be the board ensures that the vision supports the state's mission, objectives, and goals for education established by law and or rule.
All right. Talk to me now about why you think this board does such an exceptional job at those two. how do you what evidence can you offer this is a discussion game this is not me we're not to a anymore what are you doing that you can point to that says you in fact keep the district focused on the educational welfare of all children and be sure and use the mic as I'm instructed to remind you often Rebecca
The board keeps the district focused on the educational welfare of all children because we have seven people who love children first and foremost and think about children when they make decisions.
I don't disagree with that, Rebecca. I'm just thinking about how can you how can you justify love of children with with your role and responsibility of keeping the district focused on the vision grab the mic I think one of the things I would think of is that we try very hard as a district to make sure that programs are offered in every
school are equivalent across the district, whether it's north of the district, north of the district, south of the district. Facilities, we try to make sure that they are equal all across the district and we work to improve those at all times.
Okay. What I'm struggling with, and I've got to be honest with you, what I'm struggling with with is I don't even know that you have a vision statement.
The law clearly says you're to adopt a vision statement. You have a mission statement and you don't have a vision statement unless you know of one.
If you don't have a vision statement, good friends, this is a weak area for you. Love of children, I applaud. There shouldn't be a person in this room that doesn't cry at graduation. There shouldn't be a person in this room that doesn't get giddy on the first day of school. Okay? And that's what we're in the business for. But this clearly is talking about the board ensures creation of a shared vision that promotes enhanced student achievement. When you look at it, change gears a little bit. When you look at the structure of this process, board members, members, this one word occurs 17 times across that framework. There is something inherently responsible, Board, about your job is to set the vision for the district. Not just provide program, all of which is good, but can you show where that goes to the vision? This is the simple statement of where you want KDISD to be 20 years from now. And I think I've used the example with you before, and I use it everywhere I go. Fort Stockton ISD has the most beautiful example of applying the vision statement. But remember, this is what guides every dang decision you make. this mr. superintendent is this recommendation going to get us closer to this that's your job board clear your job not not just to love children not just to promote but if you cannot tell me and I'm not saying quote it like me my quote the preamble if you can't tell me kind of where your vision statements kind of four or five words from brothers and sisters sinners and saints you got no vision statement we worked on the vision statement we came up with the vision statement the only thing we don't have is it posted in this room your vision statement in part drives
the goals that you set the goals are based on the critical issues you see facing kdisd and you're telling superintendent, Mr. Superintendent, and I'm going to use the number three to five, that's just a magic number in my books, on top of everything else you've got doing, you've got going on in this district, we the board, because it is our statutory responsibility to establish goals based on critical issues that we believe will get us closer to our vision.
This, remember gang, is the what you want to see, not the how. Never the how, but the what. You're telling Mr. Fraley over the next 12 to 15 months, which is the life expectancy of a goal, this also ties in directly with the superintendent's evaluation, we want you to, on top of everything else you're doing, we want you to spend special time, energy energy and resources on these three to five things. Because we believe at this little point in history, these three to five things, if we start them going, will get us closer to this. Now let me do what Fort Stockton does. I just think it's a beautiful picture. Just an absolutely beautiful picture. Very similar boardroom like yours, not nearly as large as yours is, but you can still kind of play along with me. You walk in these back back doors. Okay? Dynasties sitting up here just as yours is. Audiences back here. On this wall by one door is a framed picture of the 2016 pre-k kids. Okay? Can you imagine getting a bunch of four-year-old kids together and say, all right, sit in a line. We're going to take a picture. It's a beautiful picture and they're all, you know, that kind of stuff, right? So that's right there. Then kind of where your clock is, where those windows are, They've got the vision statement. On the wall over here, guess what they have? 2015 senior class. Board members, you sit up here and you have to look at that and say, the decisions we're making tonight can't affect those kids. Their educational fate is already done. What we're up here doing, what we're spending a second night this week away from home doing are those babies if we do these things when we get those babies through the vision statement and to become the citizens we the board want to see possible very clear in the law this drives this every decision you make is based on this so I have to come back and say
really really and I'm not chiding you gang I'm just being gut level honest with you if you don't have a vision statement that's real I'm not saying one of those where if someone comes up to you convinces Joe what's the vision statement of KV is T but you click your heels together and come to attention to rattle it off. I'm not saying that. I'm saying some kind of pithy little statement that no one else has to understand but the eight of you.
That's why you're here. It's for that pithy little statement. Elgin ISD has one. Elgin's outside of Austin. You know that.
They have one that sounds so incredibly hokey, it's not even funny. But if you walk up to one of those board members and you look at their shirt my god how corny is that they'll beat your butt in the parking lot i mean that's how serious it is their vision statement and i'm i was with them that night we took three hours to pound out these words and it is beautiful their vision statement is elegant isd changes lives that's it that's it they've also been so trained with their superintendent that when the superintendent brings up a recommendation, the first question out of someone's mouth that night is going to be, Mr. Superintendent, is this going to change lives? And if he, it happens to be a she, if she stammers and can't answer that question, board members, you vote no. You vote no. No. Because you, as a collective, as a body corporate of trustees, not representatives, but trustees, you've come together, in Elgin's case, to change lives. That's the power of a vision statement. Westwood ISD, by Palestine, theirs is so powerful, they have nameplates up here, not glued to the wall, on the back of their nameplate, that only they can see is the vision statement. So when I'm sitting there at the dais and I hear citizens come up and talk about we need this, we need that, we need this, we need that, I can't help but look down and read that again and wonder, is that in line with our vision? The seven of you gang were elected by the citizens of this community to make trusted jury decisions, not to sample the will of the people. That's not it. That's the will of Congress. So you call them representatives. The law calls you a trustee based on studied jury decision-making you're holding in the palms of your hands KDISD and everything it means. and sweet Rebecca there are a whole bunch of children in here but there's a whole bunch of other things too that's what you're holding the community you're holding the teacher yeah you're holding staff telling all those things whenever you get to this point this is something that doesn't change every year this is something that the two new board members have every right to have spent some time trying to understand and having the other five get very emotional about what these words mean and Courtney if you can't buy into this as an equal player on this body corporate you have every right to ask for revision I don't get it Elgin changes lives? My God, how cornbread is that? No, I want a full paragraph. No, you don't want a paragraph either. But we want to revisit this once a year. Is there still goodness around here? That's a vision. That's a real vision. And while you gave yourself pretty good marks,
I gave you a big F. Just in thinking. And just in knowing you. And knowing where you've been. And knowing what the letter of the law says. This is not intentionality. That's not what this is all about. This is, do you have something? Do you have something? Do you realize, when you evaluate Mr. Fraley, the undercoined premise of his evaluation is, over the last 12 to 15 months as he worked on these did we in fact make steps closer to making this real that's the core of evaluation maybe we should have done this in the last I don't know I don't know that making sense to you yeah yeah and I see boys all the time they spend an awful a lot of time on the mission statement. There's nothing wrong with the mission statement. My job, though, is to keep you out of court. Part of my job.
And, you know, it's very clear in the law that you have to have an adopted vision statement. It's a shared vision statement.
That's one of your jobs. It's not their job. It's not the community job. My God, don't get a committee of the citizens together to create a vision statement for the board. That's a cop-out, gang that's your job that's why I'm pretty heavy on this thing and why this is what this means you know I got sometimes I work with the boards and and I'll say you know I don't care what I'm doing if it's a goal setting or super into evaluation session or something I always go back and do my homework and look at this okay that's reason I need to have one and I'll come to a district and I say, you know, board members, I don't see that you have a vision statement. You know, they scratch their head or other parts of their anatomy. You know, well, we ain't got no vision statement. And then all of a sudden the superintendent says, yeah, you do. Remember, I wrote it for you last week. And hands it out to the board. Oh, yeah, we got a vision statement. I look at you and say, you know what, board? You ain't got no vision statement. It's your job. It's solely, totally your task. All right, I think I beat that one up pretty thoroughly. any questions don't don't let me get on a tirade game without challenging me Joe you know me better than that any any comment about I know I know it's it's I know gang remember I'm a former board member you get caught up in the operations of board meetings and too often you don't take time out to do those things that you the board are supposed to do you get so caught up in clicking off an agenda and getting on out and getting school started and talking to mr. Fred we have any kids missed the bus today how many kids were called blah blah blah that's all good and fun that's part of the parts part and parcel of the job but you've got to take time out to do this absolutely do that let's look at the reverse side of this we know where you said the highlights were, where do you find the weaknesses? Let's start with Joe. Joe, can you identify two that you saw that were weak? I'm going to identify those two.
Vision. Yes, sir. Okay. We want two. Did you have two?
Two.
Okay. Rebecca? Rebecca? Okay. Okay. F. Ooh, there's something about F.
Alright, it looks to me like we need to do a little F.
The board uses the vision, is that the one you're talking about? to assess the importance of individual issues that come before the board and demonstrates to commitment its commitment to the vision by using the vision to guide our board deliberations decisions and actions oh let's see if our last okay just taught me individual board members should not have individual agendas separate and apart from the shared vision wow that's a tough one we you think Joe do you think that's a problem or anything it's just something to be concerned about use the mic I'm sorry sure he'll be most unhappy and take my Madonna mic away from me god I wish you would well this board yeah I think it's something to be concerned about on with the tenure Joe you have on this board and don't let me put false history in your mind I
think you have a have a memory of when that in fact has been a real threat to the work of this board and and there's nothing that is as devastating as that anybody else on individual agendas this is this is so cool game this is so cool this is what keeps this is the glue in you because those words are mine just like those people in Elgin you say something to one of those good people that mean this that me your mother and father brother and sister that's what your problem is and they will every bus driver in Elgin ISD knows Elgin changes lives a beverage door front door school Elgin ISD changes lives the convocation Elgin ISD you cannot get out of Elgin ISD without having changes lives pounded into you and this is certainly the glue that holds it together you may want to comment on F the one about individual agendas why just since you know just looking at how it's affected our board as a whole I think it has been a major
impedance to the administration doing their job because instead of them to do
right you didn't warn me about that Bobby function sounds come over there right so instead of speaking as seven with one voice we have competing agendas down there and then the administration instead of doing what we as a board have talked about we now distract them and cause them to pull off their primary mission using the true north as their as their benchmark of what they're working and two we try to divert their attention and i think uh we've seen it kind of frequently yeah and you get to the point board members when you see this as an occurrence and you see this as as a roadblock and i think charles you you're spot on my friend you've got to think about how how inefficiencies are built in the system the more that becomes a problem okay if you give out in a call dang I don't care what he's doing where he happens to be he's picked up that call he's gonna respond think about how much multiply and I don't want to know a number but think about how how much time your superintendent spends on the seven of you.
Multiply that across the month.
That time has got to come from somewhere. That time in responding, and I'm not saying, gang, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying don't question something to the superintendent. That is your one employee, that's who you go to. to God forbid don't go to anyone out here. You know, there's your one employee. That's exactly your source. But you take that and you multiply it and think in terms of how much time that is and realize that time has got to come from something else. That something else is what you pay you to do. That's to run the district. You ask superintendents around the state, no, ask board members around the state of Texas. Do this at convention. It's a pretty fun one. How much time does your superintendent spend on y'all? What do you mean? How much time do you think your superintendent, in his day, what percent of his day do you think is spent on the seven of you? Board members are going to say, oh, hell, we a good board. We a good board. I love that. We a good board. I don't know, maybe 3% of his time. You ask that same superintendent, you know what the superintendent say? About 30% to 40% of his time is spent on the seven of you. 30 or 40 percent of his time has got to come somewhere. It's got to be subtracted from something else. And that is his primary function as your employee. And once again, I'm not saying don't. I'm not saying don't by any means. I'm saying that's the impact of board members who have lost sight of this under into single agenda items. Extremely inefficient. The best defense board members you have, Charles, what's the best defense you have if Joe, and Joe's not going to do it, but I'm going to pick on him, all of a sudden gets on the tirade that goes on for a full year about renaming the high schools. And every time he opens his mouth up here, he's bringing up that renaming the high schools issue. And the board members do exactly what Brian did, kind of chuckle, roll their eyes. What do you do?
You mean, what am I going to do with Joe?
Yeah, what does the board do? You're going to slice his tires in the parking lot, right? Am I allowed to say that in public? I'm the one that's—well, you're Mike, too, though, aren't you? Aren't you proud how clean my language is tonight? I'm just so proud.
What we'd do is we'd have a good conversation. We would talk if that didn't work during— It's not going to work. And we're going to talk, and we have an agenda item.
And that's not going to work, Mr. President. I'm going to bring it up next month also.
And I guess right there at the podium we'll just say, does this meet our vision statement? Joe, how does this help us?
I've told you, Mr. President, time and time again, it's completely in line with the mission statement. You, sir, are the one who's stopping the process. This is a valid issue I want discussed by this board. We'll discuss it. When, sir? I've asked you now going on eight months. What I want you to say, gang, is what your board members do, you minimize him. You minimize him. And you know, and I'm picking on him, you know he's nothing but a rename the high school guy. He could care less about everything else. And so therefore his input on everything else has been totally minimized. His worth to you as a team member is about zero. We've seen that happen. We've seen that happen. All right, that was, what is E?
Oh, that's the long one. Thank you. The one I just read and didn't need to read. reading. Individual issues that come before the board and demonstrates its commitment to the vision by using the vision to kind of our board to the liberty of the... I think we've kind of hammered this, don't y 'all?
I think we see some real work for the board. It is, well, I've shared with you enough what an invaluable asset this can be to the board. Let's go to the next one. Let's go to structure.
structure. What do you think that average is going to be?
Any math folks? Four? I'm trying so hard to use colors.
Alright, let's identify the high ones first. Just like we it it up here give me the two Joe give me your two highest ones give me the two you like the best
okay this is when you gave yourself high marks on so this would be a harder part art. Rebecca? Can we come back?
You were five though, weren't you? Okay, so, okay. Courtney?
This is tough, gang, because you gave yourself high marks.
Okay.
Charles?
I like G and I.
Henry?
Ashley?
G and B. Okay, let's take a look at B first.
First of all, the overarching statement in this pillar is you, the board, provide guidance and direction to accomplishing the vision. And you say that you are very strong in the board fulfills the statutory, this is B, correct? the board fulfills the statutory duty of the local board of trustees and upholds all laws rules and ethical procedures and court orders pertaining to schools and school employees
hip hip hooray kept your honey out of jail here's my question why didn't everybody mark that one
you had all Rebecca I got you right here
in other words this is one that I think we're going to look at it and if we're not doing I mean let's make a call to Beaumont see what they're doing yeah if you don't like that one let's go to let's go to Premont ISD you don't like that one by God let's go visit Dallas ISD You don't like that example? Let's go out the far west. Let's go to El Paso ISD.
Let's flip it now. Let's look at the ones where you thought you were weak and there may not be any. Rebecca's not gonna have any. You have one. Oh, hallelujah. All right, let's do the weak ones now.
Okay. Okay.
Not one or two.
Two. The rules are flexible. They're mine, not TEA's.
Go ahead, Ashley.
Okay.
C and J.
Who's out? Brian?
Another one for J and F.
J.
Courtney, did you have one?
I had C.
C and D. Henry we're doing low low scores on pillar two which is structure E and J all right let's take a look at J next the last one is that right the board oversees the management of the district by employing a superintendent and evaluating the supernets performance in providing education leadership managing daily operations and performing all duties assigned by law and or rule and in support of the district's vision
okay someone want to talk to that one want me to go first sure okay we have individuals who have individual vision missions and I think they evaluate the superintendent on their individual desires it wasn't based upon how he did it as a job as a whole but how they viewed him individually doing an individual mission statement and I think that's where the biggest problem that we're having right now is I mean we see our numbers as a board we see the the performance that the administration shows us,
and instead of saying as a district, we're succeeding in lieu of what we do as a board, we look at individual things and say, well, he's not doing this particular item that I really, really wanted him to do. Not we as seven, but as we as one. And I think that's why I gave that one such a low mark is the board doesn't oversee management of the district. We have a board member or some or seven that want to evaluate him on their their desires okay Charles I kind of want to add to that a little bit because I think I think absolutely right I think it goes back to the first pillar we were talking about and the lacking of the vision statement with the goals that fall underneath that so it's it kind of creates an environment yeah that doesn't it doesn't all tie together well okay Without evaluation.
I cut somebody else off. Who else? Courtney?
C, because I think C kind of speaks a little more to what you're saying, Charles, which is the board focuses its actions in policymaking, planning, and evaluation and restricts its involvement in management to the responsibility of oversight.
But I don't think we restrict as a board. We have people who don't restrict their involvement. they actually involve themselves in management so I think we have I guess that's kind of how under I and that's how I understood see where with Jay I kind of understood more that we employ a superintendent and we evaluate his performance that's maybe I got this can know I they're so related so they're related. Gang,
this is what the law says we are to do. Do we hire a superintendent? Well, yes. Check that one off. Related to that is Charles' point, and that is to what degree is this body corporate
possessive ability to evaluate the superintendent, correct me if I'm wrong, somehow how tainted by individual agendas of other people of individuals is that right okay in Charles your assumption is that it is yes but the evaluation process if you will is somewhat diluted or misguided or and I'm fishing right now right yes I think that's a good evaluation of how it went on our last one we had in seven individual desires and certain assumptions were made or
wishes and when those individual wishes weren't done the evaluation was attempted to be biased in a certain direction because we didn't have a good vision of seven we didn't have a good structure set up so that we understood where the superintendent was going and he understood where we as seven wanted him to go did he get there I think he did because he had our true north goals and he used the true north goals to get us where we needed to go but I don't think the board was a positive influence to get him there and then based upon his performance we didn't evaluate him on the performance that he did based on the true north goals i really wish i could turn this mic off but i won't because legal counsel sitting around here what you just said i find is some of the most frightening stuff to come out of your mouth because you know what that does we're not um we're not lagrange isd okay if in fact and i'm paraphrasing the comment and y'all let me know if i've hit it or missed it and if you agree or disagree but essentially what Charles said was despite okay the board the superintendent did his job for the good of the district is that fair I mean is that a fear reprises what you said
Charles don't look around this is your voice not theirs based upon what I felt I think that was a fair assessment okay now did it finish that way no but initially I think yes it wasn't a biased okay and that experience still stings yes all right anybody have somebody said no Rebecca Rebecca? You want to share? Okay. Anybody? Obviously this is a sore spot.
We can convene to closed session if we want to bring this to a more specific or to have more specific comments i did check with your agenda and it is clearly posted that possibility and that is allowed in the law you want to go to closed
yeah let's go to closed would you like for me to attend also yes put your call
The Board will now convene a closed meeting as authorized under Section 551.001 of the
Texas Government Code for the following purposes.
Texas government code 551.074 and the time is 7 -0 -1.
Thank you. The board will now convene in open session. The time is 7 -41.
All right board members let me, we We We were talking about the evaluation process and under the pillar of structure and what your guidance is. Let me kind of segue just for a bit into just really and truly a refresher course on what primarily the commissioner has said and the direction given to us as school board members on the evaluation process. it's pretty well scripted by law there is you'll find also in the law there are plenty of places where the board has options they can exercise all right but let's give you the options a little bit later let's talk about what the Commissioner says you have to evaluate the superintendent on all right these are your goddess these are not do you want us and essentially what the Commissioner says is there three areas board members where you have to evaluate superintendent and furthermore you cannot evaluate the superintendent in areas other than the three that you that he prescribes okay and first and foremost are these things these things that are adopted by the board these things that are determined by the board that we talked about earlier the three to five items that you're telling superintendent these are the special areas we want you to do to devote time energy and resources to all right remind me to come back and talk about the cycle pick up a little note down here in case I forget the second area as prescribed by law that your evaluation has to be centered upon is as well is student performance.
Item 3 (Part 2 of 2) & Item 5
In the law, this is called the student performance domain. It's the same thing. In other words, you're going to have to look at accountability measures. This is a standardized form that has been blessed off by TEA. It is not anything that's a big surprise to board members. it will be a document that you've seen the data on before Staff will fill out this particular part of it. It becomes a part of your evaluation instrument. Okay now
Off to the side And this may be more than we want to get into now that I want to go too far into that We want to get the rest of this, but this is just a little seed to plant in your mind. Okay if student performance has to be a part of the evaluation, which it does. Board members, don't make student performance a goal. Don't make student performance a goal. It's already covered down here. You're not giving the guy a pass. It's already covered down here. Don't put three to five goals up here, increase eighth grade reading scores, increase seventh grade whatever, increase 10th grade, no no no no no no that's covered right here. Every superintendent knows in the state of Texas this is a critical part of the evaluation. All right now let's go on. The third area okay think about let's visualize just for a second here you have this think tank gathered in some office in downtown Austin with the Commissioner and they're trying to evaluate they're trying to create the standards for evaluation and they say okay it's got to be board driven the board is responsible for evaluating the superintendent therefore let's go ahead and put it say that they're going to have to evaluate on the goals this takes it off of the golf course this takes it out of personalities you're evaluating performance on goals we also have to include student performance because after all that's what we're all about in in the state of Texas right now anyway. And then someone in that room said, yeah, but what about all those other things?
Like what? Well, like fiscal management. Well, okay, let's put that down here. What about board superintendent relationship? Okay, let's put that down here. What about superintendent relationship with the community? Okay, let's put that down there. in other words by the time this came together there are actually 10 of these and what you do board members after you've determined your goals this one you do nothing with besides wait for mr fraley to give you the report back you get together as a team and you say of the ten i'm using the word other you'll see it as part three on the evaluation instrument. Of the 10, which ones are topical and important to us? And you strike off the list. If you end up with only three of the 10, no problem. No problem. Just because they're listed doesn't mean it has to be part of the evaluation instrument. My beef with this is, gang, board members, we tend to make this more difficult than it actually has to be. As long as I'm focused right here and right here, and these things are kind of others, it's a simple process. It's a very very simple process. Commissioner goes on to say, boards, you always complain about me saying you can't do this and you can't do that. Here's one I'm going to give to you. I am going to recommend a form, an evaluation instrument and if you don't like that evaluation instrument by golly go out there and do your own I will tell you there's not a district in the state of Texas that I know of that's done this the reason for that is because the law to comply with this no you don't no you don't as long as you have these these in, you're not doing this.
This is something totally different. If, and I'm not saying
adjusted wordsmithing, that's not it. That's cool. All that stuff's cool.
Boards that go out on their own and do these, the law is very prescriptive of what you have to include.
And when boards get into this, they're always saying, well, you know, Bill, how are we going going to know? Can't we survey teachers? That's what the Attorney General says. Yeah, you can survey teachers. You can put them part of the evaluation instrument. But you know what? It can't be anonymous.
And the board says, you mean they're going to have to put their name on it? Yeah, I think that's what can't be anonymous means. And very quickly they pull that one off the list. So this is a cumbersome process. What you're using is an adaptation of the recommended form check you have within this scope you have total license to create to help and I think sometimes we overdo it we make it more difficult than needs to be but I'm going to talk about this also this session is the beginning of the cycle the end of the cycle down here is the evaluation as soon as the evaluation is done the very next month you come back to this i don't care bond election i don't care building school i don't care bless your hearts being involved in that thinking the districts are not doing that it's still imperative but the cycle because once you postpone this and postpone it and postpone it then you get to the evaluation it's kind of rough kind of rough to evaluate them on stuff that you haven't really truly done it is very much like the budget process
and typically Typically, when do you do your summative evaluation?
Yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am. Back on this page. The one that's stuck. Yeah.
So when we talk about, we're talking about superintendent evaluation. Is this district goals, superintendent goals? are I remember in a in a training with Kay Douglas she says when you talk about the superintendent evaluation instrument which is the one recommended and we have tweaked it that's doing the job of a superintendent for the most part superintendent goals are the ones that are three to five added to that that challenge him a bit or or get us maybe board input or something is help me with that okay okay how do we how do we measure yeah and you know that goal setting stuff you put five people in a room that do that as a living and I'm not one of them and you've got five different ways to save goals I don't care if it's objectives or action steps or whatever the heck else it is I'm I'm going to use whatever the law says because that's about all I can remember.
All right? Dr. Rutherford, can I ask a question? Yes, sir. When I read the law, it says district goals. Here we're saying superintendent goals. Yeah. Are they one and the same? No, sir, they're not.
They're not. When the law says district goals, it's talking about these things that are dedicated by the board, adopted by the board, set by the board. Vision statement doesn't change radically. These things have a life expectancy of 12 to 15 years. months that doesn't mean you can't readopt them there's nothing wrong with that but these are prescribed by the board but these are the what's you want to see done what you want to accomplish after that then with each one of these
you come back and the superintendent gets with his staff and says alright staff these are the things the board says they want to see done how can we get there and staff then develops if you will superintendents performance girls superintendent performance objectives superintendent take a holiday I don't care what you want to call them these though are staff driven this is the the measurability. This is how you're going to get there. Okay? And this is where I'm going to almost
commit heresy. Okay?
I said almost.
I didn't trip that time so that I didn't count, Sharon. What you want to see happen, board members, is really all you're concerned about. about. How you get there, short of being illegal, is fine with you.
If superintendent comes in and says, board members, you told me up here what you wanted to see. We have found it. It's called cumulogata. And board members looking at it, what in the name of the almighty is cumulogata?
I'm telling you, board members, you don't care what cumulogata is. You turn to the superintendent You asked a three critical question. Will it get us closer to our vision? Yes, it will. Will it make a difference in KDIC? Yes, it will. How do we know we've gotten there because we're going to do this this this and this? That's fine. On these?
Yeah, if it comes in as a with a budget I mean if there's a fiscal note attached to it, yeah, you'd have a vote on it. What I'm trying to get you to realize is this is where you keep your eyes.
Don't get buried in the weeds down here.
Okay, I'm just trying to make sure I understand. Okay. Is that we develop district goals.
Okay, we're going to call them that. Okay, let's do it.
And then he goes away and says, okay, he comes back to the board and said, okay, the staff and I have come together. This is how we are going to achieve this. And these are my goals. Am I right? Yeah. Or objectives or okay? All right Do we as a board then say put it on the agenda and vote on on those on these on the superintendent? Staff not prescribed. No, sir. You don't have to
This is the only thing that you have to adopt This is shared with you and report after report after report after report report. And this is where Joe, when he's giving reports on this.
Because I know in the past, in the years I've known, we've had superintendent goals that we've adopted. So I'm a little bit.
If your superintendent goals were actually these, if you had nothing higher, then you would adopt those.
But if it's a more. Is that a fair question Mr. Fradley to be asked?
Thank you. It's a very fair question and in fact in 13-14 you accomplished, well you've done a couple of things. One, you adopted the overall five year range true north goals. So we've had those. After House Bill, whatever session it was, we wanted a few more things. There was a lot of talk, you all got criticized by a lot of folks who don't sit where you sit about how can you hold him accountable because it was surely he can't be doing that well because we don't like him and some of you bought that all right and so how do we get more specific this one is and that's when you came doctor with us that you really can't talk about a increased reading by two percentage points when you're at 95 96 at 97 percent you know and and the board understood that and so when you adopt true north in the absence of anything else we have a direction for those five five goals and annually I give you a report with BJA local and True North overlaid showing compliance with the with because BJA is a policy part of it as well and True North is the goals you did adopt beneath that we have what we call a work plan which can be these and and that's been so that's a work plan does not require board approval but it drives the work of the staff so we've been doing it every year. I mean it's not a big thick notebook like folks used to sing. It's just a strategic very focused this is what we'll be doing for the upcoming year and when we present you with a budget that thinking is incorporated within that budget. So that's why the cycle is you want to have your district goals adopted and then we work on a work plan and then we'll give your budget and that and at my evaluation in June we come back and look at are those district board goals still the things we want to work on so to speak we work on our plan and really you have to a marshal adopt those for the following year so you kind of evaluating and you kind of assessing things and we're just we're just accomplishing everything beneath that on an ongoing one basis you're putting the kumla gada in place exactly and kumla gada is addressing the goal established by the board yeah and and I think I think I also want to hammer into the point board members these are the this is this is the thing you ask with the products up what's the process the nut price of progress rather not down here okay I really don't care how kumla gada fits into third grade math curriculum.
Okay? That's their problem. That's not my problem. All I want to know is, is Koolagata going to get us? If it is, I don't care how to spell it. I don't care how it smells. It doesn't matter to me. As long as it gets us where we want to go.
Yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am. Should be following in the cycle. Okay? Does that help board members kind of clarify things? things and I think the problem is we use too much jargon with this stuff and we get confused and then I'm afraid even go there gang but then you've got that horrible thing called the district improvement plan you know and and I use that term lovingly because I was a former board member and we have two brand-new board members on the board tonight so let's not tell them the secret about the night when the district improvement plan is presented okay these wonderful folks out here just hoping they don't get stuck having to present it to you that night but it's it's a different animal all together these and I'll go ahead and take us on down these question okay yes sure Joe so these are district goals and I'm gonna throw a wrench in because you said another word you said board goals yeah I know it same thing tomato tomato I'm just I just want to clarify because I we've got new board members and I want to make sure that they're not confused about the difference between district goals and board goals because I know some your districts adopt board go right you're right boards that adopt specifically called board goals or goals they they establish for the seven of them and that's that's a totally okay all right now one other thing about using the instrument and I heard I understand from from looking at what you've done you've moved away from the numbering them giving an average. I will suggest to you, board members, under the law you're the body corporate. Body corporate means one. Means one. You speak with one voice.
When the evaluation, when you're part of the evaluation is over with and you've presented the summative evaluation copy to Mr.
Fraley, he speaks with one voice. I'm not altogether certain a 2.5, if you're using the, which you're not, using the number system to evaluate, speaks from one voice. It's also on that section where you list comments. Those comments also are coming as one voice. I do not encourage you to list every person's comment. That is not within the concept of the corporate body. If the corporate body cannot agree to every comment that's listed, then we need to have a conversation. Because when you walk out of there and you present that evaluation that evaluation is speaking for all seven of us. We can't say yeah but Bill didn't agree with that so we didn't put his comment down. No, man it's the body corporate. We're going to have to step back there and hammer it out until we get it done. Because that's what the law says we're to do.
Alright? Does that clear things up? Make it muddier maybe?
I was getting to accountability.
Accountability, we have some variation in here from a three to a five, a number of fours. Let me have your top two, Joe. Let's start there.
Yes, sir.
Oh, you made it easy on me. Rebecca?
Courtney?
Ooh, something there.
Ooh.
Henry?
Shall we stop? Ashley?
I'm sorry, hang on. You're cool.
I had two low ones and all the rest were four, so I'll just go with A.
Okay.
A.B.?
All right, gang, let's take a break and look at A.B. and their accountability. The board measures and communicates how well the vision is being accomplished. Your high points were the board ensures progress toward achievement of district goals. There it is, Joe. through a systematic, timely, and comprehensive review of reports prepared by the direction of the superintendent.
All right. You're getting the information you need.
Sometimes more than you wanted. That is superintendent trying to figure out in the 70 reminds how much is enough.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, certainly it does. And of course, we have to understand the reason for providing you with reports, board members, is so that if you have a question, you ask that in advance of a meeting. If you really, really want to know the answer, you've got to get him and his staff time to get the answer to you. If you have a question, it pops to your mind up here that night, that's a different story. But if you've got a question and you wait until that night, that's practicing gotcha. because all he can say is, Mr.
Adams, I don't know the answer to that.
I'd be happy to check with staff, and we'll get back with you in a couple of days. And Joe thinks, yeah, got him, zingo, got him. And that's not good boardmanship. What was the other one, B? The board monitors the effectiveness and efficiency of instructional programs by reviewing reports prepared by or at the direction of the superintendent. Direction, yeah. All right, you say, obviously, you're pleased with the reporting. Quantity, quality. Gang, I'm very proud of you. This is oftentimes a big-time stumbling block in the relationship between the board and superintendent because the board can't decide what they want to hear, and so they say, well, just give us what you think. and the sober says okay I'll give you what I think here it is right here I don't know what you want to know in all this stuff board receives all this next no way I'm not gonna read all that stuff so Virginia says okay we'll give you the readers dot this convince version give you this much board says yep he's hiding something I knew it all along he's hiding something so if you've got really good faith in that that's a real strong point you're getting the information you preparing you with with all kinds of data and facts that you may need and let's look at the things that shot were low H H. Cannabinoid team?
H.
H. H. Henry?
Ashley, are you going to do an H too?
You are conformist. Tina would be so disappointed.
Okay, Rebecca, did we get you, ma'am? With an H?
Okay, let's look at H.
The board annually evaluates its own performance. Yeah. In fulfilling the board's duties and responsibilities abilities and the board's ability to work with super NIT as a team you know what board members join the rest of Texas this is a very common one and let me tell you what happens on this one and and if we if time allows well actually that's what we're doing tonight but that's this is actually what the what the evaluation is? First time for everything. To what? Move H over here, right? Okay, I'm with you. Courtney, you're working, girl.
What happens with this is when you look at the law, section 11 of the education code,
or chapter 11 of the education code, where it talks about board duties and responsibilities, it says that you evaluate yourself annually and the superintendent, blah blah blah and it goes into great detail on the superintendent. What 99.9% of the boards around the state of Texas do is they jump immediately into that evaluating superintendent wherever it was up there and don't take time to evaluate themselves.
There are some states where you have to send information, not your analysis, but you have to request annually the evaluation self-evaluation instrument I know the state of New Jersey requires this so New Jersey then sends it back to KDISD and they check KDISD off their no-no list okay the end of the year those districts that are not checked off the list get a warning from the New Jersey State Education Agency whatever it's called but you're out of compliance so you know there's somewhere between there we find some reality what's going on my recommendation mr.
Mr. President, the month before you do the summative evaluation, evaluate yourself. That gets you into the role of evaluating, looking retrospectively. It also is a pretty good opportunity for board members to say, did we hold up our end of the bargain?
There's not one. That's another problem. I wasn't going to go to that problem. But it's an opportunity, you can use any of them, there are a lot of them out there, real simple to do. But essentially, did we do everything possible to make it work? If we did, then hopefully it worked. And by the same token, if we didn't, if we didn't do a good job of holding up our end of the bargain, we've got to carry that in with us when we go into the evaluation. evaluation in the whole system of fairness and the whole system of student achievement we've got to be honest with ourselves so yes ma'am so
you're saying the month before the June evaluation so may in this district we've got school board elections and we also have the turnover of officers on the board that's a lot to add you know there's does it make it the perfect time to do it or does it make it a perfect storm to do it I don't know that there
is a perfect storm because there's no month that you're not going to find a perfect storm I'll tell you the one to be careful of superintendents this is kind of tacky out and so you may want to may want to step out some superintendents that I know in the state of Texas want their evaluation in December.
Why?
Well, people are happy in December. You know, it's happy times. Santa Claus is there. You know, it's happy times. And they dang sure don't want their evaluation in January. You know why? You paid off the happy times in December.
So the storm can happen at any particular month and you there's no there's no um prescription on when you have the month that you have to evaluate the superintendent that's a board decision
just because your culture says you do it in june doesn't mean it has to be in june if you can find a better time all power to you a lot of boards are moving because where was it
If this has to be part of it, Alton, when do you get the preliminary results on your STAAR exams?
April.
April? April, June, sometime in there? And what is the variation between, how much variation is there between your initial report and your final?
We don't get rejection.
Not much. Did you hear the expert? Not much. therefore if this has to be part of it board members there's nothing wrong with your doing starting the cycle as soon as you get your preliminary report nothing wrong with that you could alter it in any home you want to a lot of boards are looking at that because it allows the superintendent the entire summer and budget preparation time to put people personnel and dollars with these things now I'm sure there are all kinds of problems with that but I'm just saying giving you the option that you can look at it anytime you want to yes ma'am
right yeah I was thinking more of the of the previous system they promised us That's the best one around, but we'll see.
Third week of June? The critical thing is, is there variation between the preliminary report and the final? No, there's historically not.
Okay. Did we exhaust H?
Okay, let's go to advocacy.
Who wants to go?
Top two and then bottom two. Thank you, Joe, for getting us started.
A-G-C-D.
any a gene okay pretty much the same G okay let's look at advocacy now then there's an issue the board promotes the vision that's the overarching goal and we're looking at G which is the last one right okay the board provides input and feedback to the legislature state board of education the Texas Education Agency regarding proposed changes to ensure maximum effectiveness and benefit to the school children of their district I will tell you again when you talk about advocacy most sports in Texas immediately jump on this one the one that you hit yourself up on and said this is the one this is the only one that you praise yourself for that they said this is the only thing advocacy means and advocacy means much more than willing to testify at the Texas Ledge it means much more than hosting a back-to-school convocation and doubting your state representative to come to you but I'm not bashing that I'm not saying you don't do a good job of that apparently you think you do can you talk to me about that
Joe I think that there's board members on this board who have good relationships with the legislators and and participate with them and and get in front of them and talking them them about the agenda of KDISD. Me personally, I'm involved with the state level and also the national level. I do that.
It's a personal deal, but I do that as well as being involved with Task Beyond the Lack and putting forth our agendas with that.
Okay. Okay. But I don't think there's, as a board, as a unified effort that we go to Austin or anything like that.
But does the board recognize that as an important part of your role? Does the board feel confident that that role is being taken care of, whether it's by all seven of you, or do we have an awareness that we're not operating in a vacuum and what happens in Austin in an odd number of years is drastically going to impact our children and our district? As long as we know that we are articulating that, then I think we're done. Charles, are you getting ready to talk? No, thank you. All right.
Rebecca?
I think we do recognize it. I think we take actions to make sure that our legislators understand the challenges that happen in KDISD and the large districts around the state because one size doesn't fit all, and I think so many of them come from many different size districts. And while in my early time on the school board, I didn't understand the importance of that, and I left that to other people as I learned about what it meant to be a trustee, the longer I've been here, the more I understand the very critical piece about having relationships with legislators so that when something about education comes up, they call you from the floor or they text you and say, look at House Bill such and so, and they look for our input and they include us in conversations and welcome us when we come to Austin to do that. It's a very different role from what I thought I signed on to do here. I see it as a much more important role than I did in TASB. Leadership TASB taught me how to testify at hearings like that. And I just think one of the great things that our board did, the seven of us, was adopt a resolution about student testing and watching what we did there and how that caught fire into the legislature and in our community. And so the community sees us as advocates for those children. And they now are having, now that the legislature is out of session, we're still having conversations about that. And so I think our board, I know everybody thinks they do it well, but I'm just here to tell you we do it like really, really, really well.
Really, really well. Really, really well. Do you adopt a legislative agenda? I mean, yeah, a legislative agenda from KDIC.
We have except for this year. But the reason I gave this one was a point was, Joe, you're on the board at TASB. When we go to the TASB in San Antonio, they present us to the legislative agenda, and they brought every item out that they talked about. They talked about how TASB was the one that worked with the straight legislators. they explained what's good, what's bad, which ones we support, which ones we don't. I assume when you're on that board that you are representing not only Katy, Texas, and our interests, but you're putting forth our interests to the entire state. And that's why I gave us that was, you know, Joe's doing this for not only us, but for the whole state, but mostly for us.
I want to kind of echo what Rebecca said. I don't think board members really and truly realize the influential power you have with your elected officials. And no disrespect to the superintendent or any of staff, but I will tell you that legislators are more influenced by board members than are they influenced by professional educators. They look at the superintendent and staff as the hired guns. they look at you who can talk about the impact of this on a particular on a particular district you can put a child's face to a bill professional staff look like they're being paid to do it and they're very quick to say you know send us some board members what important members think about this what important members think one of the things to a bill that and we've talked about this before is that as board members and and we talk to the representatives that that represent us locally is that is that we're elected officials and those people that vote for us vote for them right so we we get their attention yeah yeah and that's that's that's the bottom line of why they're much more anxious to hear from board members because they're like you they got to hustle a vote occasionally too don't they all right let's do the flip side of that those items under advocacy where you felt like you did didn't do quite as good a job hey hey hey
be
anybody hey also Do
Do we?
Do we?
B and F?
So there's something about A and F. Anybody not have a tally up yet? Okay, let's look at A and F. The board demonstrates its commitment to the shared vision, mission, and goals by clearly communicating them to the superintendent, the staff, and community. All right, brothers and sisters, what's the problem with A?
Or have we talked that already? We've pretty well covered that material.
Unless you want to go, but no, just teasing, just teasing.
The board promotes school board service. Oh, gang, this is a relatively new one. It was actually added by the state board in August, and it is a powerful one. Look at this one. The board promotes school board service as meaningful way to make long-term contributions to the local community and society. Wow, if you could only give yourself high marks on that. Man, what a difference you make in this community. Can't think, don't tax yourself, but think of the number of people who innocently or intentionally look toward you, the seven of you, as their source on what's happening at KDISD. I mean, like it or not, you know, you're quoted, your opinion is sought, your nod of the head is sought.
And by the same token, think how much damage it is when the seven of us, and I'm putting myself in the group, when the seven of us maliciously badmouth the district.
Because you're speaking as a voice of authority.
Well, I heard from a board member the other day, and I knew all along that wasn't a good plan. You know, they're smoking and inhaling down there at the central office. Whatever, whatever.
The job you have is not necessarily, F is not talking about do you agree and disagree with everything Alvin's doing. That is promoting your role. Promoting your role as job, as service to the greater Cady community. That's what this is all about. And that's tough. I would dare say, though, what was that, F? I would dare say you probably do a better job with that than you think because I can go back with you and I can say and I can look at Rebecca and Joe and Charles Henry and Brian and I can say remember when remember when we've decided that community focus community engagement was a major theme remember that I think you actually do a much better job of that then what I would give you on this one so they get pretty doggone good ambassadors let's look at a bill real quick before yes sir let's say the board's trying to decide where we want to put more emphasis say developing bonds and inroads with the community for community support or trying to help more into the schools with volunteers and with the PTAs and all that where do you think as a board this advocacy should be more focused I don't think it's an an either -or.
If we become so localized, then we're missing a greater opportunity
statewide. By the same token, if we take care of our business statewide and our own house gets dirty, we've done a disservice to this community. I think, Charles, you have to be kind of cognizant of when do the times need us. And the the seven of you have different talents. Seven of you have different talents at different levels. Some of you may be better connected at the state level than at the local level, or vice versa. There's nothing wrong with a divide and conquer. I think we have to recognize this as an ongoing responsibility and not a time to go only when you're about to ask for money. You know? If you got a bond election coming the next two years, now's not the time to be starting to be nice. Be Pollyanna. Now that was years ago. Because it's not sincere, you know that. And that's part of this continuing commitment to job service.
Dr. Rutherford? Yes, ma'am. I think maybe Mr. Griffin is asking, do you think that it's more important to go to like everything? everything, he's just talking about local, schools, school related people or like Rotary Club or Aggie Moms Club or something like that, is that what you meant? Yes ma'am.
Well of course I would never go to Aggie Moms Club.
I don't think you can put a prioritization at those clubs, those organizations, those entities, they're all important. They're actually all vital. you can't say one is more important one more more vital than the others I think one of the challenges that we face here in Katy is that we're such a fast-growing school district we have people coming in who don't know about the district and and we are challenged all the time by trying to advocate you know for the for the district with these folks whether it's uh school board elections or whether it's it's bonds or whether it's it's just what we're trying to do in the big picture uh moving moving this district forward so we have a lot of of new faces in kdsd whether they're young families or whether people are just moving in with the oil and gas business or other industries so we're that's a big challenge for us here yeah and I recognize that Joe I would also add I would be I would be caution I would fail in my job if I didn't caution board members about being a too regular face at a school or at a PTA group or anything like that that's That's not your job. That's not your job. And that's not what this is talking about. And so if I misdirected the question, Charles, I apologize.
Board members have to understand
that I don't care how hard, and remember I'm one of you.
I'll use myself as an example.
With two kids in school in Odessa the same time I was on the board, I don't care how how hard I struggled to get teachers that I knew, administrators that I knew, to see me as Bill the dad. From the time I was sworn into office, in their eyes, I was always Bill the school board member. And even though I thought I could still, with leisure, go to, I don't know, our daughter's band contest, I could. But I had to be very cautious of the fact that others around me didn't see me as bill the dad but they saw me as bill the school board member and if i'm going to a band contest for odessa high school and people see me as bill the school board member school board member then if i don't go to the same contest for odessa permian high school then i'm not doing my board my board service well i'm not going to that one i'm one of my daughters you know and that's the bind you get in your job is is to hold and trust the district and so if we find ourselves thinking that this means ticking off I need to go to 15 PTA meetings and seven Rotary Club meetings and that kind of stuff that's that's not what our job is that's what really that's what you have a communications department for and that's that's just part of the nature of the animal that's developing a thick skin and you know board members if you're sitting here saying oh that'll never happen to me they'll never happen to me they'll never happen to me i'll tell you in the history of god's humanity you'll be the first person that hadn't happened to and we'll want your name and autograph a little bit later on because it will happen i reckon do you have a recommendation of how often i mean i know you don't want to be there too regularly so that you're just you know you become the sounding board or too regular there needs to be some
professionalism and and separation there but what's what's a good amount of time to spend I don't think we want to quantify that I think if if the board is invited through the proper communication systems to attend the opening of a new program or I think that's a different story but I think making myself available to come lead the Pledge of Allegiance at every meeting of the Student Council is abusing me and I want to know what kind of social life I have
you know if I'm free to do that kind of stuff you just have to you just have to begin to develop that wall because my go-to source on what's happening is right here right I don't need another source but by the same token I'm not gonna sit I'm not gonna stay from the public either because our role is advocacy you're right mm-hmm yeah the comments on advocacy shall we go to unity I want your top ones the domain that did we cover both of these I don't remember I think we did yeah Joe go ahead oh D is in dog she got it D E G H
I'm sorry H
gee gee gee we cover it by good tick okay let's take a look at DG the board understands and adheres to laws and local policies regarding the board's responsibility to set policy and the superintendent's responsibility to manage the school district and the direct employees of the district and the campus manners. This is a paragraph and it all boils down to one word. What's the one word?
It's micromanagement. That's all this is talking about. That's all it's talking about. Does the board know that your job is to set policy and get out of the way.
And therefore let the superintendent manage the district. And what you're telling me is you think there's some concern here. Oh, you're good things. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Good Lord, I must be inhaling this metal and these markers. But it's a good thing. That you have this. This is not an issue.
Agree? I want to point out that high marks and praises from me to you on this one this is one that oftentimes people in larger districts will say oh that's much more typical of a small district we don't do that we don't have time to do that in a large district small district people will say all those people what's for people the big city folks do they got so many different things on their pet projects they're gonna they're gonna dwell on those things if you're telling me that you're going to give yourself high marks for recognizing that difference. Congratulations. Absolutely congratulations. Let's look at G. That was G, wasn't it? D.
D.
The board supports. Is that the one I'm looking at? The board makes decisions as a whole. Only a proper call means yada, yada, yada, yada. Okay?
We don't feel like we're having any kind of suspicious meetings going on, suspicious decision-making going on. We don't feel like when I walk into the boardroom on board meeting night and I'm taking my place up here, we don't feel like the decision's already been made and I was left out of the loop on that.
All right, very good. I'm not gonna I'm not gonna knock you on that one You may want to wager a guess where most illegal board meetings occur Not Starbucks
Where yes, sir. Oh session. Yes, sir
Where where the most illegal meetings occur Henry parking lot parking lot there's a real obvious
obvious psychological, physiological move that school board members make. It's called the school board itch. And just watch them. End of the meeting, Charles is about to damn gal this meeting and now he's adjourned, blah, blah, blah. Board members, when they want to have an illegal meeting, they get this twitch.
As they're gathering up their stuff, and that's commonly known as let's take her to the parking lot. And you get out of the parking lot where your car is, And there's a phenomenon that occurs also, gentlemen, where the pockets of our pants will go down to our ankles. And it takes us forever to reach down there to find our keys. Because I'm waiting on Brian to come over there because we're going to talk about what happened to that board meeting and why that was the wrong thing. It's an illegal meeting. It's an illegal meeting. Remember the Attorney General has told us that any time a quorum is present and you make a decision on behalf of the body corporate, that's an illegal meeting. outside of a lawfully called meeting. Attorney General opinion also says, so most of us here, they're going, oh, a quorum, that means the three of us can do it, because I know what a quorum means. Quorum means four. So as long as you don't have four, we're cool. No, no, no, no. AG's most recent opinion, Board Members, is quite simply any attempt to circumvent the Open Meetings Act is a violation. Any attempt any attempt the focus is not so much on the number the focus is on the intent okay I know Brian's gonna call Henry this afternoon he's already told me he's gonna call Henry the second because he's gonna talk about job or the thing I'm then gonna tell Brian okay I know quorum to I'm gonna tell Brian you know Brian I just can't support that recommendation how do you feel about that Brian I don't think I can do that. I'm going to vote no.
I'm going to vote no. I wonder what Henry thinks. Oh, you're going to find out? Okay, well, don't let me know because that's a Meetings Act violation. Yeah, right. You've already violated it. It's the same thing we get into with those email trades that happen. Email to one to two. No, that's a violation. Blatantly a violation. Any email you want gang, I believe your board punches says go here and Then the president takes it here Once it's here. It's dispersed to all If we start this emailing back and forth and I keep telling boards all across, Texas the most Criminal key on your computer is reply all Reply all Don't don't yeah, but that brings up a question. I'll honestly So does that mean we can't, once the down gap happens, we walk out, we can't talk school talk at all? No, no, no, no, no. The AG continues to rule, you and I are human beings. We're in the school business. We're going to talk school talk, okay? You go to convention. I don't know about you, gang, but you can talk about my hairline. I'm not brand new at this business, right? I'm one of those, when I drive through a town, I still look for the schools. and I want to kind of evaluate a new town that I'm into based on looking at schools right you do the same thing you talk school talk business that's not making a decision if it is simple as what shirt are we gonna wear okay are we going to dinner at so-and-so at convention you know that's not it you know all together in the van driving up to talk to Austin for convention you're talking with school talk. That's not the deal. The deal is, is that opportunity creating an opportunity for you to circumvent the law? If it is, back off. Which is important, but I think Charles is bringing it up, you got to be very careful back here. Very, very careful back there. And it's incumbent upon the board president to redirect the conversation if it looks like it's gonna go someplace it shouldn't be. All right, Let's talk the other side now. Are there issues you found on unity? A B F Sorry F F Another B A B
B F
Did you say D as in dog or B as in boy? Thank you ma'am
You know, did you get a tick?
I see it.
Okay. I just want to make sure everybody got a tick mark. All right, let's look at A then.
The board ensures that its members understand and respect the need to function as a team in governing and overseeing the management of the district.
Okay, we see this as a struggle or perhaps a threat to our ability to be a comprehensive team. Anybody want to articulate that? Talk about that.
You didn't mark that one, so you're off the hook. Got a high mark?
Did I read the right one?
You did. No, there was some A's.
Dr. Rutherford, I didn't mark that, but I'm wondering if the very thing we talked about, which is the Open Meetings Act, where we can't really talk about things in a group if it's not a posted agenda item, kind of hinders us from the functioning as a team because there are some things that would be nice just to chat about or talk and we can't do it because of I do want to say how very proud I am of this board and always have been how well we govern each other yeah I am too how we we do not violate that and so we don't have discussions about things that are not posted agenda items and that are not out in the open so maybe that's the struggle here is it's hard to know like and and because we don't spend a very much time together when we're not at the dais so it's difficult to come together as a team and we've had some new people in the last few years and so it maybe that's what it is it's that's the feeling I'm getting because I didn't mark that as a low but I could see that could be it is it's difficult to share and not think oh but if I share with him and I share with her now what we're careful about yeah and And it can be, really, Rebecca, it can be as simple as, you know, I'll go back to that vision session.
Sitting around with my six colleagues on the board and having a real philosophical, up in the clouds talk about, really, what do I want? You know? And all of a sudden I think, dang, I didn't know Charles had such a soft heart. I thought he was his butthole pilot that didn't care about anything besides on-time arrival. You know? He is. All right. All right. All right. But...
It's not customer service.
It works for you.
Oh, you know. But those kinds of things and those kinds of experiences and those kinds of opportunities can knock down walls very, very quickly. I think it's also important board members you understand that what a gift you have with being able to go into closed session and that gift is being able to have that kind of conversation back there knowing that it will stay back there you with me if you have a mole on the board Rebecca that changes everything that happens back there right
I wasn't going to talk about Ashley in public that was her line I stole Courtney's eye but I dr. Rutherford I don't understand because we don't talk about things in co-session that are not protected by law like no no and I'm complimenting on that but i'm saying with a mole we we still abide by that so there's not a time when the seven of us can go wouldn't it be great if you know what if money were no object you know what would be great that i'd love to do or we don't get a chance to do that rebecca you need to tell me there's never been a time when you have not ex when this board has not experienced
the morning after having thrown in your face what went on the executive session
has it never appeared on a blog site no no never okay no we we don't do that we don't that's great I'm not I'm not challenging you don't I learned a lot from mr. Adams in my years here and I always look at him and say mr. Adams stop me if while we're go here I need to ask a question and and if it's and it's like yeah we have to wait till there you know we can't talk about an email we receive nothing we don't do it then then once again that's that's that's a marvelous opportunity for you and something to cherish where you all have to police each other not this border but that has happened before thank you Brian yes I agree with Brian it has happened not with this right that's that was my reference and it only happened with the one time because before before that it never happened and and if that were a reoccurring theme would that not put conversation in closed session in a straitjacket if you knew by 8 o'clock the next morning everything that was said in closed session was going to be out in the public community that is a gift the law gives to the board that's a gift the law gives to the board to discuss issues and you know what the law says about those recognizing there sometimes we just have to have to go into closed session and if I know that Brian is sitting there prepared to say and I'm gonna it's going to come back to me on a blog site bill Rutherford said last night in closed session the rivers of a balloon blah you know what we get back to their closed session and I'm just shut up man I shut down you're not going to find my name on your blog site Brian tomorrow morning it's not going to be there
and and that's a gift that's a very real gift I work with a lot of boards that can't say that they live in denial you know you go to Dairy Queen right after a board meeting and by golly you sit there and have executive sessions fit right back at you and you think man where's the law with these people absolutely worth the law all right what other one do you want to look at yes I'm sorry yes
The Board adopts and adheres to establish policies and procedures for receiving and addressing ideas and concerns from students, parents, and employees in the community. Why don't Charles go on, sir. What's the issue, you think?
Well, I kind of expanded it just a little bit because I really didn't like all their words. but I would say when that one comes to unity we have a lot of policies and procedures there's different ways to go about interpreting policies and procedures in Charles Griffin's mind when I see a policy and procedure and I read it and let's say I want to do something like I love fishing with Hutzel they do this fishing thing and only got to go to it once anyway if I want to get involved with something I read the policies and procedures they have words in there but the application of them how they're how we do on what's past policies and procedures you don't know all that as an individual board member so you have to go to the experts which in our case is Miss Holland and I think as a board where we have some issues is people will read that and they interpret it one way and they assume that that's what the policy means but it really doesn't because the way you read the words and the way that previous boards have read it the way that policies in the way that we operate under that procedure is a different manner and the administration expects us to act a certain way but if I read the procedure one way and I act on it without talking to the administration I might be acting not in compliance with with policies and procedures. And I think that's where in our unity, we've had some issues because the administration expects us to act like they have since Joe's been here. But we don't know the past history that these policies and procedures were written on and how we're supposed to act underneath them. Like the word notification, what does the word notification mean? Does it mean, hey, superintendent, I'm notifying you, I'm going to this elementary or does notification mean, Mr. Superintendent, I want to attend this event on this date and give him what does notification mean? There's different interpretations Yeah, word. So when I'm seeing unity on that one, I'm saying as board members. We do not say Administration this is my goal and this is my intent and my files in my following policies and procedures Correctly and if not, what do I need to do? to make myself in compliance with these to achieve my overall goal.
Yeah, I'm hearing you. I'm hearing you. But there's, it's not that it's not in place, it is the ambiguity of the understanding on...
The application of how do you apply that policy procedure. Which leads to the application. Yeah. Okay. And that's why I picked that one because adhere to established policies. Well, we don't do a good job of what is the established policy. And if we have questions, be open and honest to say to the administration, this is what I want to accomplish. And then being honest with when you get the feedback, maybe I can't do that. Maybe I really, really want to do that, but I can't. And one of my examples with that we had, we talked earlier, we had a leaking bathroom in one of the high schools outdoor facilities as a board member I just sent a note up and said hey we got a leaking bathroom probably not the best way to do that policies and procedures there are other ways to handle it but at the time was learning but I think there's we need to be honest when we ask the administration how do we go about doing this yeah and I think I think board members i think a lot of that is spelled out in your board operating procedure well it is but also then there's there's uh when you have a new superintendent come on alton's been here a long time now but some superintendents would would give you carte blanche to talk to staff and and say i don't care you know and just you can talk to them but but i think what you're what we're talking about is a unity what charles is talking about is the fact that it's unfair to the other seven other six board members and to the superintendent if we start calling the finance department about something and, oh, I've got the information that I need but I haven't shared it with the other six.
Correct. The superintendent, of course, needs to know that you've been talking to the folks as well. Well, and the current situation is that if we call and talk to someone, then they report back what we've talked about. But this board, I mean, we don't do that. I mean, we don't talk unless the superintendent may tell me, well, you know, you need to talk to Tom or something. You know, give Tom a call. I can't talk to him right now, but give Tom a call or whatever. But this board doesn't do it. But I think that what I'm saying is I understand the reasoning behind all that is because of the fact that it's not fair to the other six board members or the superintendent to go out and obtain information without sharing it. Now we go to the secretary to the board and also to Mr. Griffin as president. It's questions asked, the question comes back, the question goes out to everybody. everybody. As a board member has asked this question, or Joe Adams has asked this question.
Which is a great practice. That keeps everybody on the same page. same page. The information is shared equally among all of you. And equally important, and judges hit on it and went real fast, it also keeps the superintendent in the loop of what your questions are. If you're going to staff, I'm telling you what's going to happen. Your CFO is going to pick up the phone and call Mr. Farrelly and say, I just want to let you know I heard from a board member, Joe Adams called, I want him to know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So he's brought into the loop, but there are a lot of times he could answer the question and I'm not putting everything off on him but it just makes it much more efficient for everyone in the same loop at the same time otherwise yeah and it is unity it's unity and it's also best practice absolutely best practice yeah I think as a board on the whole we do that very well we and and credit to Sharon that if someone asks a question she makes sure
it's we all get the answer I don't think there's any unity lacking there I've been this is just a year experience for me of appreciating that process I think what Charles was speaking to is there some policies and procedures in place that are interpreted differently by board members we that's where the unity is lacking is the general understanding of certain you know procedures and and if one person say on the board looks at this way but that's not really what the rest of it is and it seems like if a bad practice is done following a procedure we all kind of get wrist slap because that sounds kind of juvenile but we all kind of get halted and in it I'm not making sense but where we lack the unity is some common understanding and interpretation across the board whether we 100% agree with that's the interpretation we don't say this is how it's going to be interpreted do we as a board all agree on that and are we all going to agree to follow that procedure as stated and you're talking about go back to talking about policies and actions that would not be covered in your board operating procedures they're covered their BOP no they're the board procedures, but again, it comes down to interpretation. And if nobody in this room knows this shit, I ask permission. I don't ask forgiveness. So I am such a rule follower that I think I will read things backwards and forwards, making sure I think I'm doing it right. And if other people do it differently, they ask forgiveness and not permission, then it seems like those of us who think we're following procedure, then we all we all are again wrist slapping is not the right word but we're all kind of
certainly uncertain as to what you're supposed to be doing right so I just think that's where the unity of possibly this board lacks is there certain there's certain procedures and policies that the seven of us have a basic understanding but if that's where the unity is lacking I think is where good point came across Which is what yours? All right, very good point that there are some areas where board operating procedures either don't address it or are differently interpreted and I think that's easily corrected. I mean
I'm spent on understanding what the board operating procedures mean because you're right The words mean something to me that may not mean the same thing to Brian
Do the rest of you feel like that's a significant issue, significant concern? Court is saying, yeah.
Do you want to talk? Do I?
I do think it's a concern.
So I'm going to agree. I think there's a resolution.
I'm sorry. I think there's a resolution, like you said. But I'm very much like Ashley. I'm very much a rule follower. And so there have been instances. I apologize.
You're driving.
stop it and I stopped or at least yielded at all the red lights I may or may not have been running late I will point out to legal counsel this is being taped by the way I stopped at every red light and never speed I'm very black and white. So I'll use this week as an example, just as an example. We were given a list of schools that we need as first ambassadors.
I got a list of eight.
I asked to change with Henry on one because my son goes to that school. Henry was gracious and was like, yeah I'll take the other one, though he was fussing at me today because it's a little farther of a drive, 45 minutes. It's not that I didn't want to go to that school. It just so happened that he had the school that one of my kids attended and I had actually both of my kids schools. So I went, I was told your first ambassador go to these schools. I went to those eight schools.
But then later found out that other board members
visited multiple schools that weren't on their list. No fault of theirs but it was something I, it was again misinterpretation. So then I kind of started beating myself up feel I felt bad I felt bad that I gave that school up because they're actually I'm their PTA representative so then I was like I did a disservice to them I should have been there for them I could have done both and then I felt like I didn't do enough because others had done more and so it was it was kind of one of those things of what what can we do what can't we do and where is it clearly defined on who's overstepping and who's following the rules or was there even a rule in that? I mean I don't know. And Miss Vann has experienced you know something similar and so we've been invited because we started out as PTA parents. Rebecca as well. We get invited more often, no offense to the men, to PTA things or to schools. We know a lot of teachers from being PTA representatives. Hey can you come read? Can you do that? Is that allowable? Is it not? Some interpret it one way, some interpret it another. And so I definitely think it's something that collectively we need to look at What policies and procedures are in place and we need to discuss hey? This is how the majority of us are interpreting it and if? Mr.. Fraley is not in if he's interpreting it completely different We need to come to a happy medium on this is how we would like for it to be interpretive Hey six of the seven of us get it this way and and you're seeing it completely different we need to find a resolution so that we're all on the same page versus we're doing something that you don't appreciate or You're putting the hammer down on us and we don't appreciate it Because then it causes tension between in our relationship and that's nobody's goal here
That's exactly what I was trying to say
And for the record, I don't interpret policy. I just comprehend it
I I think that those are very valid concerns, and I can see you're looking at that as a unity issue.
Unity not from the standpoint of us being combative, but rather I really don't know what the expectation is and being over the bounds perhaps or not. But that's just a great conversation. And that's a conversation and the learning that happens honestly over time That doesn't mean you have to get bruised too many times for you when to have the conversation I would encourage you sooner rather than later, but great hypothetical PTA calls me wants me to come read. What do y'all think gang should I go or should I not go? That's my example Answer, what do you think?
I ran for this position because of the experience that I had with PTA, because of the relationships. I think I was put, Ashley and I, I think we were chosen for this position because of the relationships that we had established in the community. And people liked the fact that they had a face with a name and a relationship with us. And so for me to now have to go, sorry, I'm a board member. I can't be part of that anymore. That's not what I joined up for. So if I am now complete, I understand my voice is restricted to an extent. I can't be in the community, you know, if I don't just agree with something or whatever. I understand that, but for me to have be completely put in a box and told, you know, you can't do this and you can't do this and you can't do this, well then maybe this isn't where I need to be serving because I still want to be able, I want to serve in a broader spectrum, but I also want to still be able to serve in a smaller spectrum as well. Does that make sense? Yeah, it does. It does. So yes, I think if a PTA asks us to come read,
we should be able to go read.
Whether it's an appointed PTA by a secondary body outside of this school, outside of this board,
then we should be able to read. Or help at a carnival, or
I think our community expects us to be involved in schools. Not extensively, not all the time, but I think they expect us to be a presence. They expect us to care. What's the saying? I don't care if you don't know I care, that thing. You'll never know how much I care unless let's have demonstrated but I think that's not the same I know when you think that but they there's an expectation from our community who put us here to be in the community which includes schools includes us understanding what happens and not like so separated now and so elevated now that you're above that and for me this is year 12 the interactions I have had with schools promise to read chili cook-off judge you know mr. manhunt judge reading in a classroom from time mr. manhunt it's Taylor manhunt judge yeah mr. SOS you just found the manhunt right there Seven Lakes judge yeah right so they want us to do that and they invite us to their things and we have control of our schedules and can say yes I have time or I can't do that this time or I did that for your school but I have other we know how much time we have and as long as we're willing to give that time and we can say sorry we're busy and and they understand that so and we've had that kind of an understood practice where where we do that for many years and so the new interpretation our board operating procedure says we will notify the superintendent's office and we will go with board authority which we use as our board president we authorize everything and we communicate through our board president for exactly the reason you talked about earlier to make sure that our superintendent has as many minutes as possible to do the big thing which is educating children we operate through the board president so he doesn't have to spend 30 percent of his time with each of us so notify the superintendent's office of where we're going to be so there are no surprises and to authorize through the Board President. My call is to the Board President. I've been invited to do something and okay, send that in, notify and now there's a new interpretation of notify. So that's my struggle.
If I could address some of that.
I'm not sure we're getting an accurate description description of some actual things that happen because we let the principal out.
Oh, so I was thinking about...
So when you have a PTA planning a program or event and it's by the board and the principal knows nothing about it, is that a good thing to do? And reality is once you're elected, this position is governed by state law as well and you have local policy and I think I think it's a good conversation to have because I think the restrictions that some feel that are trying to be imposed are not really that. It's more for clarity.
The Board had at one point talked about the unity thing. Some schedules allow you to do X number and others don't allow you to do any at all. Is that versus the other trustees? That's something the trustees easy to talk about. The only thing is if procedures say these steps should be followed and they're not and I call the Board President about it and I'm told forget it, guess what? I forget it. But if I'm said well, we need to talk about that. Then we try to talk about that and make sure we're all on the same page to prevent a bigger problem from coming up. That's only been here recently I think. I think we can get beyond that without a doubt.
How do the rest of you feel about the process of responding to the invitation? and certainly I was thinking the same thing where's the principal involved in this and at what point should he be in and for the same token board members not everyone can go to these meetings as often as other members can and does that drive a wedge perhaps in the board Henry you want Tom well we set a goal as a board and I don't believe it's changed of increased community engagement you You spoke earlier of how that vision, that goal drives everything underneath that.
So for me, if we've set a goal of community engagement, whether that's engaging in a school, whether that's engaging in a Rotary Club meeting, whether that's engaging in a legislative thing or whatever, we have set a goal that we're going to increase our community engagement because we saw a lack in our community. So that policy should support, I believe, a level of community engagement that may be different in Katy than it is somewhere else. Because we as a board have set that goal. If we feel we've reached it and we want to change that, then fine. But we've never talked about changing the goal of community engagement. So I believe that policy of going into the schools or going into any community type function should support that goal.
When did we set this board goal?
I've never I've never set a board goal. I think he was here. Is that district goal, superintendent goals, or board goals? It was one of the top ones.
That was not us. I think that was totally a lackluster. The general...
I think you have to... I think you have to, board members... And I understand the passion. And I understand the sense of calling. And the sense of connection. But I think we always have to keep in mind that after that election happens, the way school people see us is just different. It's just different. You know, I remember the first time when I was elected. First of all, the morning after the election, it was amazing how many people, how many friends I suddenly found I had. Yeah, right. Trying to use me like an old fiddle is what they were trying to do. and that's going to happen that's not going to happen we have to be able to recognize is this truly a volunteer spirit and will everyone see this as a volunteer spirit and you've got a question I think you have to look in yourself and maybe even look at your policy and have a discussion how much is too much and when does this become a potential impediment to the work of the school I don't know Joe, what were you going to say?
I think we have policies and procedures. I know that there are some people who have the time to go and do things and participate more. Some of us don't have the opportunity or the time to go and do that. But I think we have to be careful not to judge those who don't have the time to say, well, well, you're not participating, you're not doing your part as a board member because you're not doing that. You're trying to make a living. When you were on the board in Odessa, you had a full-time job.
So I don't want people looking at me and saying, well, you're not the model. You're not the model, and I don't want to be criticized by saying, well, by some board members saying this is a standard. You're not you're not meeting that standard in our community because I haven't attended You know 40 PTA meetings or whatever and all that but but I understand that the rules and regulations as far as while we do it because You know like you say if if It can be interpreted a lot of different ways Because all the principal has to hear as we've talked about before is an invitation if you'll submit an invitation I'll be happy to come well that they're gonna submit an invitation. Yeah, and whereas if you Go and judge if you want to go and be a part of the carnival. I don't think that's a big deal I mean, I don't think that that but I think that the proper
Contact with the principal is the big deal. I mean to make sure that they know you're on campus And why and why you're on campus? Yes, that's true. Yeah
Rebecca can I go real quick?
So I know for example, Cy Fair has, I don't know if it's a goal or a policy or a process, where they, every board member has 14 school visits a year.
So that all of their schools get a visit from a school board member to show that just the connection. just we value what you're doing at a campus campus we value you the school board is not just a decision-making body to bang the gavel and we're here two hours a month and and gone but that they feel valued by us and yet there's still the reverence of a school board member and we're not being interruptive of classrooms and things I think the kind of things we're talking about is not a classroom interruption it's it's chili cook-offs it's promise to read which is a program it's it's those mentoring it's things like that but sci fair has every board member does 14 visits a school year and we're not talking about that much that many things here but that's kind of an expectation they set for themselves they tested it once it was so well received and the morale of the campuses went up because they feel valued and recognized and every person needs to feel valued and so to see the success of their program you know makes me you know wish that we had a way of other people at the campus don't they see the the board as a as a thing not a seven people and so I think the connection that we might have like when we do this first week ambassador program every place we have been has been thrilled we were there and like I'm so glad you came it's I'm so excited to show off my campus we spend ten minutes with the principal we might spend 10 minutes walking through the building or just standing outside while the buses drop kids off and they're just excited you know to be able to be like oh look a school board member came or or mrs. Holland came or mr. Fraley came and they take pictures and they tweet it out and they're like look put it now and that's the importance of what we do it's not about interrupting instruction none of us wants to do that we all have children We all understand the importance of that quality instruction time. That's not what we're about What we're about is letting our people know that we value what they do And so I don't think any of us are talking about to being there too much. I just think that the biggest
side consequence of the school visits are We hire the superintendent to do a job and when we start getting involved in the schools I think we're now below the line and I do think that there's times when it is appropriate for us to be there but when board members are now being active in the schools we now are below the line and is our help really a help or is it a hinder to reach the objectives that we've set for the superintendent I think we're talking as if there's an A and a Z and I'm talking about a process to come to what I think is important is important so we say Safran has set a goal of 14 visits there's probably a structure for that we don't have a structure we just kind of go if i'm invited i won't i won't i'll go do it and i would really support and encourage and we discussed this before a structure and we do have things like promise to read uh so that it is expected it's it's engagement into the whole community because the community engagement is not the board it's the district it's the whole district and you're part of that district and so the district works together which the board is a part of for community engagement and it's not the board's doing this, the board is doing that, it's the district is doing these things and
we have to let more folks know what the role of the board is, that's important. But we can accomplish this because no one's opposed to it and I think it's a great idea. I do, but I do think that we can't discuss side fare without discussing the fact they have a structure. And an established process that delineates those things from promise to read to judging pigs or whatever okay yeah yeah it goes back to unity or any other comment on unity mr. board president we are about 45 minutes over
scheduled time I would say that I have another activity for us to do but since you stand between me and my car I don't think I'll say that I guess I got to get past all these people who retired and ready to go home too I think I think we're probably pretty much wrapped up here but I would like to know what we we need to do to get to where we need to be to be a good board and i think today was a great step yeah i think you are a very very good board but i want to be even better you're not what's our next step you're not a tip you're not atypical in those areas that you found that you're short in you're as i see it from my perspective but it's all i see if i'm a board member and all i see is is my own little world and I see my own frailties, let's say, then I think I'm not doing a good job. I think I'm not being as productive as we should be. And that's not the case here. That's really not the case. I see that. I see that when I go around the state. I kind of hit you up on the vision statement as a way of starting. Did that on purpose? Because I think that's so very, very critical. and that vision statement is such a part is such a healer for almost everything you talked about and as long as it's real it's real if in fact it's Elgin changes lives and I'm not I'm not I just want you to understand the drama behind that and the commitment those seven board members have to those that little short phrase that's a huge step Charles in what I think is the next step it's not like you're in the gutter. I hit you hard on that and I wanted to impress upon you that to me that answers so many of the questions that surround an awful lot. As long as the seven of us as board members have our eyes on that vision and we are truly committed to it, most of the little petty stuff goes away. We're going to have some of that. It's inevitable because we're human beings. But if I know the prize is a bigger thing than promise to read right that I hope the director is not in this room right now when I said that but it that just that goes an awful long goes very far in everyone taking care of understanding the supernatant evaluation instrument so within evaluation process what goals we're talking about policies that are not understandable what's the process of communicating back and forth to each other it really it really takes care of a lot of things you're you're spot on you're a very good board very very good board uh there's room for improvement
uh dr rutherford just as a a resource for us um can you address do i mean katie where where in the top ten as far as large school districts size wise yes yes i suppose we should be in the top ten yes um boards are size our districts are size 70 000 plus do do they have board retreats or do you see a value in having board retreats uh yes sir i think there is value in the board retreat uh joe i'd caution you that the law says that the board cannot meet outside of the district uh and so if you're depending you're a bit of a luxury compared to some because you've got some places to go if you're no offense but if you're
kermit you know you may not have any place desirable to go that's inside the the district and there are good people out there too but yeah there is value in it but a lot of it just like tonight tonight was only going and i told you this at the very beginning it was only going to work if you were willing to be honest. If you want to sit there and tell me A, A, A, A, A and deny it, maybe we're out of here in 30 minutes. Same thing is true with the retreat. If you're willing to really truly be honest, yeah, there is value in it.
Now, you two still believe that myth. You two people still believe that myth that I was told and you were probably told and you said it in fact too why don't you run for the board they just meet once a month and it's only two hours surely you can give the children of Katie isd two hours okay okay okay
yeah Thank You bill for all your work and I know we're gonna see you again see you again soon this meeting is adjourned at 920 920
Official documents
Agenda
The district's own agenda for this meeting, as published on BoardDocs.
Official agenda, Special Board Workshop Meeting, 26 August 2015 →
Board packet · 8 documents
The district's own backup material for this agenda, retrieved from BoardDocs. Each file was checked against the size BoardDocs states for it.
- BBD(LEGAL) 63 KB
- BBD(EXHIBIT) 52 KB
- BQ(LOCAL) 14 KB
- Five Year True North District Goals 27 KB
- Katy ISD Mission Statement 8 KB
- Vision PROPOSED 7 KB
- TEC Subchapter B 77 KB
- TEC Subchapter D 474 KB
Motions and votes
Recorded actions
No motion or vote appears in the agenda, in the board packet, or in the district’s own index of the recording. Every item on this agenda is listed as “discuss and consider”.