Good evening. I hereby call this special meeting of the Board of Trustees of the
Katy ISD · Special Meeting
Katy ISD Special Meeting, October 3, 2012
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Katy Independent School District to order. Today is October 3rd already, 2012,
and the time is 540 p.m.
Mr. Fraley, will you verify that we are in compliance with the provisions of the
Texas Open Meetings Law in regard to the notice of this meeting?
Madam President, we are in compliance. If I may? Please. Tonight we want to get a
couple of objectives I've reached one of the things I like the least about this
job is bond elections the second thing I like the least is results upon elections
when you have to look at attendance boundaries being changed when you add
any schools we have tried several ways during my tenure in KDISD of looking at
modifications and where to point now we're going to make a decision regarding
regarding the next one. We'll open high school number seven this fall and we have done some plenary looks at things but we don't have any recommendations. But tonight we want to talk to the board and hear from the board regarding two things. One is what process will we use this time around and also what is going to be the scope of this attendance boundary process and any other values that the board would like for us to work through as a staff.
I want to welcome Mr. Tom Gunnell back stateside and also here tonight to help kick this off.
We have a number of staff members present to help with any questions that may come up.
And we'll just go from there if that's okay, Madam President.
Okay.
Good evening, Mr. Gunnell.
Thank you.
Thank you, Superintendent Fraley.
Good evening, President Fox and trustees.
I appreciate having the opportunity to come before you tonight to discuss the attendance boundary modification process.
process.
Tendency boundary modifications are nothing new to the district and is an important item
to address as we prepare to open High School 7 next fall.
I have resources in reserve to assist me tonight.
That would include Dr. Chris Poole from Population Survey Analysts, our demographic consultant,
Peter McElwain, our district architect and planner, and Scott Dunlap, who in addition
to being the district's energy management coordinator, has another duty as assigned
is our internal demographic coordinator and has a grasp of land use zone planning that is second to none.
So thanks, team. I appreciate each of you.
The goals for tonight's meeting are straightforward.
They are for the board to provide direction on the process to be used for the upcoming attendance boundary
and to identify what the scope of work is for this ABM.
Working with our demographic consultant, we have already completed much of the work of geocoding
or matching students to physical addresses.
later this month we take a snapshot of the students in the public education
information management system and use that snapshot to validate the work we
have done today this is also the snapshot demographic data that is
reported to the state on october twenty ninth we present to the board the annual
demographic report which includes projection several years out by land use
zones
additionally we could have one or more ABM options or scenarios for the board
to review at that meeting in November a draft recommendation could be taken to
the board with approval sought as early as December this is a frequently used
slide and what it shows is the process that fundamentally we've used for the
past several years but there's been some discussion that this process has lived
its useful purpose and was not as productive as desired so as we move
towards addressing attendance boundaries for high school seven we have an
excellent opportunity to take a look to see if there is a different process that
we might consider some of the factors that we should consider include
designing if it should be led in-house or through a consultant or a hybrid of
the two to what degree does the board desire to look at the options to what
degree of public input is desired and how that input is to be received now
last year the ABM wasn't decided until January but the timelines associated
with opening a high school would be better served by a December decision
also to be considered could be the approval authority for the ABM there is
nothing in law or nothing a policy that requires the board to approve the
attendance boundaries and how the ABM decision is communicated to the
community the next three slides offer a comparative process that is currently
being used in a large nearby district in their process the board approves the
process for establishing attendance boundaries the considerations they use
include much like ours how close the school is to the kids what the feeder
system is what the capacity of the school is enrollment projections for the
next five years just like we do use of physical boundaries and developing
attendance boundaries and input from the community and I should mention that is
my understanding in this case that the community input is limited to email and
written correspondence this slide reflects the actual process that they
are using and hate to do this to you but we're going to run through all these
steps and I'll try to do it as quickly as possible in this in this other
process the administration works with the demographer and they jointly develop
options the board specially calls meetings it could be after one of our
board meetings to discuss attendance boundary options and review the public
input which has been received to date the boundary options are made public via
variety of media which includes an opportunity for the public to provide
feedback through email and written correspondence the administration and
the Margaret's demographer would study the residential development student
enrollments and take a look and see if there was any any other options that
needed to be considered for that year and then to bring forward a
recommendation to the Board of Trustees in their case no later than January but
But again, for high school, I'd like to push for a December decision.
I want to touch on communication, and I thank Steve Stanford, our communication director, for assisting with the next two slides.
And you see here a three-pronged strategy, with the first phase being an education phase,
and that's the why and the how of the ABM, which would take place immediately.
Then the participation, public input, however that's chosen to take place over the course of October, November, and December.
And then a notification in December, no later than January.
There may be some options, depending on siblings or grandfathering,
that may spill into January that need a little cleanup work.
Audiences, there's a number of them.
This just lists Fords, parents, homeowners, homeowners associations, realtors, and staff.
Certainly we use the traditional communication tools, and you see them there,
everything from releases, websites, social media, our updates,
as well as something new for attendance boundaries this year,
and that's direct mail with two opportunities for direct mail.
One being people letting them know that it's coming in those areas that it may be impacted.
And the second piece, what the approval was.
And that mail would also direct them how to get the additional information through the website.
It would also provide information on how they could provide their input.
So discussion goes.
I try to provide some framework, really just two of them.
What is the process that we move forward with this next year?
and then what is the scope of work for planning for this fall?
And that leads us to discussion.
So at this point, are there any thoughts on using either our old process,
perhaps the comparative process, or perhaps something else?
Dr. Proctor, go right ahead.
Can you quickly go over what our current process is?
Yes, I can.
if I can find it I can yeah let's see okay the last year if you remember it
seems like yesterday the first phase we talked to the public about what our
assumptions were we spent a lot of time about talking about assumptions and
values and we went through a list of those I think there were 20 or so
assumptions everything from how close the school was so whether portables were
important or not so we spent some time on that with the community we were
working concurrently with our demographer to come up with a soft
recommendation trying to consider as many of those those values the public
had before we had a soft recommendation we put that out to the public we had a
public forum had a lot of folks who registered for it not a lot of folks who
attended it we received much more input online probably about ten to one input
put online compared to to folks who were there took a recommendation to the board
you know change it a little bit took it back to the public took some more
feedback and then eventually brought it back to the board so I think we had
three public forums and an opportunity to discuss it with the board I think
both during the work-study and regular board meeting all the way until January
and the actual schedule I think literally started with the webpage going
up the day after the demographic presentation with the board so by the
end of October we already had the ABM website online
mr. Gunnell last year I seem to remember the process sort of crescendoed the
closer it got to the final recommendation the more people showed up
at our public meetings is there a way this year to get to that crescendo a lot quicker
in other words get the preliminary recommendation out there because i think people respond once they
see the map and then we can begin to get that feedback and make changes rather than have a
lengthy process before we even see a first map yep a a great point i i think we're in a position uh
to perhaps bring back something with lines on it as early as October the 29th when we meet with the board,
which advances that a little earlier than it has been in the past.
Then we could have a public meeting after that, based upon that map.
I think one of the things we need to discuss are whether we choose to have public meetings
or we go with the comparative model, which does not use public meetings.
Having said that, recently just received word from Klein that they're no longer,
after last time will be moving forward with public forums either as they don't consider
them as productive as they'd like to be because the nearer you get to the decision point the
more and more voices you hear and it's tough to distinguish the signal from the noise.
Mr. President, one of the challenges we've had last year and the past couple times actually
is we'll put an option out and folks will look at it and say okay, I'm happy with it.
so they don't come to the public forum.
Others who don't like it come to the public forum
and give us lots of feedback, and we actually listen to it,
and we implement some of it,
which changes the options that the folks were happy with.
And we have the next public forum,
the folks who were happy last time are unhappy this time,
so they come, and those who were happy after the forum
don't come back, and then get more input.
And the problem is that we've actually utilized the input.
I shouldn't say a problem, but what has become a challenge is when you utilize input, it
does change the map and folks have to come to both forums or however many forums we have
and regardless of whether they're happy with the initial soft recommendation or not.
Madam President.
Mr. Griffin.
Mr. Gunnell, does a comparative model do a good job of presenting you the steps for you
to go through and are you comfortable with using that model?
I'm very comfortable using that model I haven't talked about it in cabinet and
with staff and with the neighboring districts seems to work well you know
particularly when we're just looking at rezoning for high school seven where the
level of interest is probably going to be only a relatively few folks and
depending where that line shifts from time to time you're either going to hear
as I'm superintendent said from from one group or or the other you know I think
we have some real real good ideas of of where those impacts already are and where we're probably
going to hear the those voices so i'm very comfortable using that comparative model which
is one of the reasons of all those models that i reviewed over the last couple months have selected
to bring this one forward as something for us to take a look at mr adams mr canal and uh so some
Some givens are that what you're saying is this is for high school 7.
And while it is for high school 7, it also involves other high schools
because we will be taking students from those other high schools.
And I think that another thing that we have to also say as a given is the fact in the past,
and I'm not saying this is written in stone here,
but is that we've started that high school, opened them up with 9th and 10th graders.
That's correct.
So I think that we have to certainly make sure that when we start this that we have all the givens out in front of us to know what the plan is because we don't want to enter this with an idea of thinking it's one way that it might be another way.
Right. Even though we have opened some high schools with 8, 9, and 10 usually because of growth, I anticipate only opening high school 7 with 9th and 10th grades initially.
Mr. Huckabee.
I know in South Fair they use a very similar process.
I mean, there's not feedback.
Is your mic on, Mr. Huckabee?
Oh, I thought I had it on, but it went on.
Okay.
I know in South Fair it's very similar to this.
The feedback is strictly through email process and through a committee that the emails go to,
and then they work from there.
you know I guess I'm kind of like Joel miss it's we're doing really one high
school instead of a district-wide movement which I know some people but I
think that it would be a good process in this it's in this situation to follow
something in this this type I'm not sure too much if on on the use of the
demographers I mean since it's since it's going to be so just involved I
guess you'd say three schools I don't know if you want to if we would want to
go to the expense of hiring outside firm to deal with with just three schools you
you know so I mean it's just something I would think of and so you know that
that's a great great point if I could add because we were opening you know
many schools this year I wanted to really make sure that Scott Dunlap
actually worried I worked worked and worried I get in the plants open and has
already had our demographer assist us with the geo coding which was essential
in order for all this to happen so the the degree that the demographer has to
to be involved now is really just up to us at this point certainly the district
has run in the past all of them you know being being assisted by the demographer
but taking the lead in all the presentations certainly we'd always still
use them as a resource because sometimes when you crunch those numbers you really
need some of that very sophisticated help that they can provide mr. DeBrow
I'd like to speak to the public forum idea.
I think that's one thing that makes us unique as a community.
I hear what you're saying because we saw that last time.
You know, you change the lines a little bit and the next group showed up.
I think it would behoove us to have sort of a speak now or forever hold your peace type
public forum, thereby getting our community accustomed to if you want to be heard, you
you need to come now
whether you're in favor or against because this is when we're going to
listen
to to all of your input and make those changes
and i think communications would have to play a huge role in
communicating that it says speak now forever hold your peace time
type situation
semester to grow what you're saying is not and
and not as many public forums because it i saw that happen last time
where we made a recommendation, one group showed up, the following, another group showed up,
and we constantly have this back and forth.
Well, people who like it need to show up.
People who have problems need to show up.
Because we did find some problems through the public forum that we hadn't looked at.
So I think that's beneficial.
But the back and forth is not.
We need to have people come, maybe one event, even if you have to use the Merrill Center, it doesn't matter.
but speak now forever hold your peace type thing we want to hear from you want
to hear from you now yeah have the map out have the feedback from online have
all of that in there and then we could take that that feedback from the public
what I'm hearing mr. Gunnell say is that other districts don't have a public time
where you come and speak by voice all of the input let me see if this is right is
is provided online through email, through an online process.
Everyone's voice is heard, but maybe not in a stand-up microphone situation.
And that, what was the word you said, separates the signal from the noise.
In the comparative model that I put up there, as you stated, is the case that if you want to be heard,
you send an email, you write a letter, whatever that may be.
Similarly, that's going to be inclined.
There are districts throughout the state that are using every type of way you can imagine to talk about rezoning,
and some of them have blue ribbon panels,
and some of them have selected members from just the impacted PTAs or whatever it may be.
The model that I'm suggesting here and a model that at least another district's moved towards,
it has considered the public forums and done them in the past,
but just don't feel they get the productivity they need out of it.
For those of you who were at all the meetings, we had groups that were physically,
not physically opposed, but just philosophically opposed to what the other group wanted,
which led to some interesting discussions over the course of that time.
and quite frankly we kind of figured all all those positions out from the email
trains that that came in we could figure out where those those neighborhoods and
land use zone stood with without the necessity of a public forum okay mr.
Mahalsky and then I'll come back to you dr. Proctor I want to continue on the
kind of community input talk and to me it's not so much the method that we use
but that it needs to be effective.
I wasn't sitting up here last year,
but it seems that much of the community input that came
was very reactive, as opposed to engaging everyone
at the beginning of the process.
And so I think, I guess what I'm saying
is I don't like the idea of producing a soft recommendation
after community input and then having more community
input after that.
I'm kind of with Henry on saying maybe fewer opportunities
but let's make sure that it's effective whatever method we use make sure we
communicate and again somehow are able to engage the people that may be
affected that may want to voice their opinions their concerns whatnot so take
a little bit different tact we've talked about communication I went to a good
session I think Henry and Henry and Terry were there on governing in the age of
transparency and we've said that's one of our fundamental concerns I am a huge
advocate for public input and public forums I've gone myself and spoke at
legislative committee meetings here in Austin and has a lot more impact than
somebody writing the greatest letter of all times so you know I would like to
have you know I think it's I think it's a good idea to go ahead and develop an
opening map the problem I have with just having a one public forum is not
everybody can be there on that day I mean you look at our meeting tonight and
we're on Wednesday night we're bumping up against an open house did I a
presidential debate yeah nothing small no I had I had to weave my way by would
creek junior high open house tonight and so if we were talking about where their kids are going
what do they go to so i'm not for having a single public forum we might want to say here's the map
talk to us here's the map still talk to us and then we'll go from there i think you need to have
more than an opportunity because everybody doesn't run on the same
schedule everybody doesn't run on the same day and I think it's vitally
important to let the public have a voice it is is there a consensus then that
I'm starting to hear that you would like to have a public forum and maybe on
on different days or is that not what I'm hearing?
I don't think you have consensus on that.
Mr. Fraley?
Well, what I wanted to point out, Dr. Proctor,
and we're on the same page in terms
of valuing transparency.
The reason for the process we put in place,
after I first got here, we had kind of a,
here's a meeting, here's an open mic,
whoever shows up, stand in line and start talking.
And we really learned very little.
There was a lot of emotion and most of the people talking
weren't talking to us anyway they'd be talking to the crowd and folks getting revved up and we left
knowing folks were angry but we had no no no information other than we knew of the emotion
so for transparency we invited folks to come in for the first meeting to talk about our assumptions
that we use in making recommendations to look at the data we look at uh to make a recommendations
and get feedback on that uh then we'll come back with that information folks be more informed about
about how the process works in terms of developing a map,
they won't come in with the first options
and have folks come in and react to that.
But again, those who looked at the first map that was out
said, I'm happy, I'll go to the open house
instead of coming to the public forum.
Those who come to the public forum
gave us some pretty good feedback, actually.
It wasn't an open mic, it was a facilitated process
where we heard what folks agreed to
versus the frenzy being whipped up by a couple of folks who spoke to where we had fewer people who could actually speak.
We heard from voices of more folks that way.
And they would give us some cogent feedback and say we would take it back,
which Donald and I would, and do some tweaking here and there,
to where the option, the map we put out first that some were happy with was now a different map.
So forum two, those who had tweaked the first map stayed home because they thought it was a done deal.
Those who say, hey, something's changed, I didn't go the first time, they come the next time.
And we listened to them and we saw a great find.
If there's not any other feedback that makes a fundamental reason we should change this, there's no more public forums.
forums. What was happening though was we had other forums folks were using to create options
and to get decisions influenced and whatnot to where it really got away from us. So that's
kind of in a nutshell the why it was. Yes, it was transparency sake is to tell folks
the assumptions and the data we utilize and have them challenge it at that time because
because we make our decisions based on the assumptions and the data that we use.
How many public forums is enough?
And at what point is it, speak now, if I ever hold your peace,
and if you speak now, does speaking entitle you to your way,
or does it entitle you to be heard?
So that's the threshold we're going to talk about,
because what I've learned is you only listen to me if you do what I want.
If you don't do what I want, and we met for two or three hours, you didn't listen to me.
Yeah.
Mr. Griffin?
Yeah.
The transparency issue.
I think if you do a great job of putting all your data together, and whether you did it in a slide presentation
or you did it in a video conference, and you gave the public the option of looking at it in different medias
different medias and said, okay, here is what we have, here is the information that we're using,
and this is the decision that we came from, and you tell people in as many avenues as you can,
and then once again you're going to get the email chain. To me, that's going to kind of satisfy the
transparency issue. Here's the data that we have, here's the data that we use, and here is our
conclusions. If you see any problems, here's the email that you need to send it to. And you give
enough people enough time you use the information that you get modified if you
need to but to me the public forums like we've talked about you have a limited
amount of time that people get up they get emotional and sometimes they stray
off the topic but the emails are going to give you a chance to get the
information that the public needs to pass and it gives you the opportunity
but the big point is you get the information out so people can see it
before we have to vote the other thing too is we learn it through the other
processes is that there was a lot of intimidating going on in the community
where folks would not speak publicly at these forums or any other time because
if they disagree with with the previous speaker you got a problem and so they
would grab us in the hallway afterwards or we would get the emails where they
They would say, here's where we really are and whatnot.
So I appreciate your noticing that also.
Madam President, I have a comment.
I'll take a turn if that's all right.
I've lived here a very long time, and when we moved here,
we were at an elementary school for four or five months before we were from our house was rezoned to a new elementary.
So I've served on many rezoning attendance boundary committees.
our personal family has been affected many many times. Both our
children graduated from different high schools while we lived in the same house.
I know this. I get this. I know that all input received to our administration is
absolutely taken seriously. You all drive, you figure out whose neighborhood has
one opening which which streets you cross and which ones in the traffic but
I have watched you drive the roads that have been brought to your attention I've
watched the serious nature that you give to every email comment person coming
roundtable discussions on every item I know that none is left unturned or
turned away because or just disregarded so I know that you give serious
attention to any input. My concern is watching my neighbors fracture
relationships over rezoning. I have watched people hurt people over rezoning
and our former processes where we allowed people to come and in a frenzy
or in emotional times hurt each other and say things that were just not true
and what I've watched is that as people when the when the decision is final when
children move to their new or existing or transferred or rezoned school I watch
them move into the new school and be happy and like it and see that the
quality
of of services the quality of education the quality of facilities that we the board care
so deeply about that we're all about equity that we're remodeling a number of our schools around
our district because we care about equity for every child no matter which school you go to
so while i watch these children and these parents who were so upset and if you rezone me it will be
the worst thing that ever happened go to new schools and begin the next year and find that
that it's simply not so.
So my concern is that when we have a public forum
where people can come to a microphone,
the hurt can sometimes be costly.
I haven't made my mind up of which way I really want to do it
because I've seen it happen both ways.
But I am all about community engagement.
Y'all are sick of hearing me talk about community engagement.
I know that you laugh at me and tease me about that.
I'm not interested in taking away community engagement but I might be open
to a new way of doing it dr. Proctor what I'm talking about is putting up a
map having a forum maybe having it in this room and videotaping it saying okay
forum to same map same assumption same everything hold a second time so people
can see what the discussion was like as as far as the people to people thing
that's a personal responsibility thing I don't think that's our job and I know
that sounds a little bit harsh but it's how you treat your neighbors in your
neighborhood and how you treat other people they ought to come and they ought
to have their say and I'd be respectful and go forward and I know it gets
emotional but I want the people in the district to have a say whether we agree
or not I mean probably in the last 18 years of my career I had 200 public
forums and I guarantee you there were a lot of unhappy people including
legislators which didn't make me very happy you never unhappy but so be it so
So I think allowing the input from the public is essential.
If somebody comes up with a bad idea, we'll know it's a bad idea.
If somebody comes up with something that we have not thought of, that's a great idea.
So, you know, I'm not for saying, let's play change the map, change the map, change the map.
What I'm saying is put up a map, have an opportunity to talk about it,
and maybe have a second night if people can't come,
let them view what happened the first time
because they will then know what kind of input we're getting.
Have them show up and say, okay, everybody's had their say.
Everybody's had their say.
Let's move forward.
Madam President.
Mr. Adams was waiting next.
Mr. Connell, I think that the process is very important,
and I agree with what Mr. Griffin said in terms of the fact that we have to get this out there in some way.
We've now got our board meetings on video conference, and you've got a shot right there on you,
and we can do insertion of presentations with things like that,
and I think that would be a great avenue to get it out there on the web
so that people could watch it over and over and over as many times they wanted
to for clarification at the same time as far as putting things out on the web
social media and those other things I think that would be very good I agree
also that the emotional aspect comes into play with this and in what we don't
want to have is is plotting people against people or neighborhoods against
neighborhoods the fact is is that we've got a new school that's going to be
opening and someone's got to attend that school and I had a guy many many years
ago when we were doing schools and he came up to me said I know that we have
to have children attend that school I just don't want my child to attend that
school and he was he was very honest and we're very good friends but but he just
was like I you know that's just the way it was but I think that the the video
fact and the having the as much information as we can because let's face
it since since we've really reached our take off here on growth I mean things
are different here we've got ways that we communicate with people has changed
over time and we've got instantaneous things that happen now but I don't think
that I've taken different tact than dr. Proctor takes because I don't think
I mean having a forum here, or not having a forum I should say, I don't think that's limiting people because they can always give us their input just like you say right here with the options of email or written correspondence.
You're not limited by time. You're not limited by being other folks in the room, you know, not having enough people to, or not having enough time to make your presentation.
or maybe you can't get your point across like you want to, whereas emails and written correspondence, you can do that.
So that's kind of where I'm coming from.
Mr. Dubrow.
I don't necessarily see it as one or the other, but a both.
Not everyone has access to emails.
Not everyone will sit down and write a letter.
What about those people say so?
We say that one of our goals is community engagement.
Well, are we only going to engage the community electronically and are in written form or
we're going to engage the community in a different process where they can come, whether or not
they speak at an open mic or whether or not they speak sitting around round tables and
come up with some ideas that they write down then and there that then we get.
pulling the community together I think is an important part of community
engagement that should run through everything that we do I'm not saying
it's either or I think it's a both the amount of public forums we had last year
I think honestly was entirely too many but I think bringing the community
together is definitely would benefit us the process and how we do that that's
something I think we can consider you know let the administration work on that
Mr. Fraley.
And actually, pardon me, actually Dr. Proctor explained the current process very well with
the two forums.
One to lay it out, but we also added the first meeting where we talked about the assumptions
and the data.
Then we had the two forums.
That's not really a problem for us.
It's will we stop after the second forum and the timeline we have for written communication
input or is going to become something else added you know because again it's
not transparency people are after it's I want my weight okay no I would say what
I what I said is put up a map give every give everybody the assumptions first you
know give everybody the assumptions you know ninth and tenth grade you know and
And here's where we're going.
Here's how we're going to run it.
Have a public forum with a map.
Have the thing videotaped.
Have a second public forum that's identical to the first one.
Not change the map so everybody's hearing what people are saying.
And then we'll say, thank you very much.
Everybody's had their say.
And go from there.
And as far as email goes, I don't know if you've ever written emails to your family and friends,
and all of a sudden you get a phone call and they say,
what are you talking about?
You know, maybe it's me, but, you know,
sometimes the written word can be misinterpreted
or more assumptions put in or taken away
than if you can explain something face-to-face.
I can tell you what happens is when they go through their vetting process of the thousands
of emails, they find one and say hey this has some merit but wait a minute let me check
on this.
They call them or give feedback so we do that.
One thing that we were proud of in each of these that we've done and it's taken a lot
of time but every email that came in we looked at and we went through that whole
triage process and say okay they have a concern and Westheimer Lakes North
because of the walking path or whatever it may be so you know we we captured
that we captured those issues you know relatively early on one of the
advantages of actually having the documents there is you could actually
take a look and understand what they were trying to do we try to get them to
categories where we could try to figure out what it was you know what is it
about this that doesn't you that you don't like instead of coming to the open
microphone I remember when I first got here at the at the first attendance
boundary that we had and it followed the same I guess the same way that we had
done them in the years before I was only one elementary school and the first
person who got up to speak didn't want to talk about what we were talking about
the attendance boundary for that school which I think was Stanley but wanted to
talk about something else and and she did and she demanded to be heard it
didn't help me much with the attendance boundaries which is where I'm trying to
get to so as much as I I'd love to have the community input sometime somehow I
need to take that information and be able to talk them to what to categorize
and figure out if it warrants a change or not or if boy a whole bunch of folks
are saying this instead of just relatively few people vocal people at a
public forum so you know quite quite quite honestly I get more out of the
electronic data than i do in in the facilitated discussions because you have difference of
opinions at those tables and you're trying to create a consensus and it's difficult to do
because somebody wants this or somebody wants something else
or on the other hand you just get like-minded people who sit at the same table
mr huckabee um
I don't know.
I'm kind of twisted on this thing,
but one of the things that I guess the direction I look at it,
because I know the parents are the ones that do all the complaining,
but the kids are the ones who want to go.
I mean, in Cyfair, I've been through four school openings in my time of being there,
maybe five, I can't remember.
There's so many of them since I've been there.
but the last two that opened were pulled from our school and those kids couldn't wait
because they were getting a new school it was they're going to be their place it was their
tradition and i think that's what we need to sell to these people and to the parents that
you know this this school is not a second grade a second rate school that they're going to go to
it's identical to the other two that are out there it's newer might be a little
better and neither one of those schools are or like a Katie where it's been
around for a hundred years you know it's it's they're both they're all new and if
it was if it was me I'd be willing to go the new one I mean that's just me I mean
I had that situation our high schools merged and I got to go to the new one
instead of the old one. I was excited about that
because the old one was horrible.
But I think that
if we
you know, who is this
focused on? Is this focused on the
kids or is this focused on the parents?
And I think the kids
are going to want to go.
The parents may not want them to go
or may have a
bias.
But I guarantee you
when you draw that line and you ask
those kids for the majority hey this is the new high school you're going to get
the opportunity to go I guarantee you nine out of ten of them will put the
check by their name to go and that may be how how we need to approach it
instead of the adversarial way of you know saying well you know we're going to
divide you you got to go over here at once you know this I think I look at it
as a positive thing so mr. Griffin mr. Griffin yeah in addition to the email
comments instead of having a public forum where you have a microphone and
you have somebody go up there is would we consider having a hotline like we did
with the buses so we present the data the community can see it they've got the
option of doing the emails and for those that don't have computers Henry or are
are unable or unwilling to stand up in front of a microphone, you have a hotline.
And those people aren't going to address the situation.
They'll just listen to the information, document it.
They're not going to say, I'm going to fix this,
but it will give them an avenue from which to express their input.
If I could respond to that, one of the things you didn't see on the slide that we've talked about,
and I wasn't prepared to put it in tonight's presentation,
is actually establishing a hotline.
Wasn't sure exactly at what point it would start or how long it would last,
so I didn't want to get into details, but I think it's a great idea
and it's something that we staffed already.
Dr. Proctor.
I'll disagree with Mr. Huckabee on the issue of high school.
I think this district I think I think I think in this district high school kids
have in mind what high school they want to go to and they've grown up with what
kind of high school what high school they want to go to I think if it's
elementary school I mean you get a kindergartner that's been one year to
school I don't think here she has his mind made up about anything other than
getting home from school and have a snack as far as a hotline goes that the
feedback I got on the bus hotline was not positive feedback it was you're
telling us this is the way it is so I'd be careful using the word hotline maybe
it's a way to have input or something like that but that did that in the
community was a little bit of a sore spot in this instance for this issue and
I'm not saying for a high school issue so you know I think I think junior high
kids have some kind of vested interest in where they're gonna go to high school
to a degree here.
Now, if we were all brand new, all everywhere,
I know the community I came from, nobody wanted to leave.
Leon High School, it was built in 1928,
and that was a rat trap.
Dr. Proctor, I think you have some valid points.
When you're attending a high school that has over 4,000 students
and it certainly wasn't built for that size,
it's more difficult for children to be a part of anything.
it's hard for them to be in the I mean they certainly can join band because you
can take more kids but it's difficult to compete or join any sort of club or
athletics or and and it's hard because the cafeteria is not meant for that many
students they're not enough bathrooms for that many students you're going to
see I have friends who tell me Rebecca this rezoning is going to be the easiest
one ever because it's so overcrowded people are ready for the new high school
when is it coming so I think we will see some students and parents who are
anxious for it to come and excited about it there will be some who are not and
and it you know it will be difficult to tell how many but I agree I I did not
like the size of high schools there are three states and there are three big
big states
that have the biggest high schools
and
america
but due to finances and everything else
that's the way
they are
mystery
but the president uh...
i don't deny uh... that there's a lot tradition
in the school district
and a lot of folks do uh... uh... by house within hope anticipation of going
going to certain schools but we've had to learn in Katie that we're a fast
growth district and we're having to open up new schools and mr. Adams said you
know we have to populate those schools because we build them because we're
overcrowded because we cannot manage the number in the current building so we
have to build new schools then we have to find some kind of means I don't want
to qualify but just some kind of means to populate that school along with our
values of being effective and efficient and I know some would say well let's
just let folks pick where they want to go to school and well can you really
manage that and and then how do you get them there and there are other
implications there as well so I don't discount at all the the values and the
desire to go to certain schools whatsoever but the fact is we have to
build the schools but to populate the schools and we got to make a decision
How do we get to that decision?
Is what we're asking for your help tonight.
Is what process do we use to get to that decision?
Knowing that some will be happy, some will be very upset,
some will be okay when it's over with,
some will hold that out and seek vendettas.
We will have A to Z, and we understand that,
and staff is prepared to live with that because that's the world we live in.
But I do have concerns that Mrs. Fox raised also because I've seen this as well.
And we've gotten emails from folks in the past concerned about their safety.
And I know Dr. Fox should say, well, they're adults.
They've got to learn to deal with it.
Well, if we create a process that has folks with one another's throat, then we have some responsibility also.
And so we've got to be very careful with that.
and I've been at the meetings where we had to have security there because we
had they weren't mad at the staff they ran at each other at that point in time
and it was getting pretty heated up and and we've had signs in yards we've had
signs saying move out we've had traders we've had all kinds of things done so
this is a major deal for a lot of folks but you got to make a decision and you
got to be as open about it but you have to have a timeline about when you make
that decision and you got to stick with it and you can't let folks keep changing the rules because
they're loud madam president dr proctor yeah i'm not saying change of rules and i'm not saying just
because i want to go to high school x i want my kid to go there that they go there if but if they
make a compelling reason that we have not thought of maybe it's geographic maybe it's something else
maybe it's programmatic at that time whatever no you know I'm not saying that we back off our
responsibility of making the tough decisions at all and that's why I said give everybody a shot
at the one map let them speak their piece and then we'll make the tough decisions because that's why
we get paid the big bucks to sit on this board she uses different termicides that take that one shot
yeah that's that's uh
yeah or henry speak now or forever hold your peace it's not speak it's not it's not speak once
or be peaceful at that point well I don't feel a consensus here among us but
we need to make a decision about the process we will use miss any other
clarifying questions before we give a feeling of mr. canal you said that other
districts use this model where they take written input only and or or the hotline
or whatever, but it's not a public forum, come and speak in a microphone.
Right.
Can you give us examples of those, and maybe let's look at their size?
Well, that's CyFair, and it's been successful.
You really don't hear much about the rezoning.
I think Mr. Huckabee can probably testify to that.
It's kind of a way of life, and it has been for a number of years.
At some point, they just got so big with their growth that they found that they were getting all this input,
and people were getting very passionate about where they were going to school,
and they couldn't find a way to satisfy them.
So that's where this process, and, you know, it's been taken almost verbatim from them.
You know, so one of the things we like to do in operations is we like to use best practices.
And when we see that another district's been successful in their rezoning,
that maybe there's something worthwhile to look in there.
So it's certainly successful there.
there and I don't know if you'd agree with them Mr. Huckabee.
Yeah for the most part I mean I've watched it happen for five schools now
and every one of those schools that opened pulled off of the school that I
was at and there was no hollering and screaming forums I mean they
basically came out and said this is where you're gonna go and and that's
where they went and I remember the first time which was Si Ridge there was there
was some uproar but after that it's been okay y'all go here that's where you go
and matter of fact last night I had a meeting since Si Ridge I mean Si
Springs didn't make AYP that 300 students got to choose where they want
to go in the district and amazingly 200 of them chose to come to our school you
You know, we're pretty full, but they chose to come to Langham Creek.
You know, the other ones went to 75, went to Si Ranch.
And the one question that every single one of those parents, I mean,
and we've repeated it over and over last night.
I bet you our principal said it seven times, if not ten.
The parents kept asking, if we start here on Monday,
does that mean my kid gets to finish here,
or does he have to go back once they reach it?
and we kept telling them when you enroll in Langham you are now Langham you are our kid
and they were they were it was like they were terrified that they may have to go back you know
they wanted to be there because I mean and uh and I took a lot of pride in that I mean
out of 2000 schools we were ranked 110 nationally and so you know that's the way I mean and I've
watched these kids once the kids find out they go they're going I mean it's
it's like they start wearing anything they can with the color they start
talking about it it's it's a I think it's more of an issue with the parents
then it been a lot with the kids and matter of fact with these kids all of us
teachers brought shirts we had like 300 shirts we brought and those kids lined
up every one of them to get a shirt last night and just so they could be a part
part of our school right off the bat.
And so I agree Mr. Huckabee the ownership of once you know where you're going is so
critical to the success and that's why I'm very pleased that you have December as the
deadline for making the decision because the sooner we know about the ownership the better
the more successful it will be.
Mr. Fraley.
Madam President I'll agree Mr. Huckabee the kids are very resilient and it's amazing that
what I've learned working with them.
Madam President, I'm kind of a get to the bottom line kind of guy in a job that doesn't allow that frequently.
But I think we have three options we're looking at then from what I've heard.
One is pretty much the current option that has the assumptions and data with a map put out there with a little modification for feedback.
Then a second form with the same map out there again.
Folks talk about it.
And then you make a decision.
So again, that's two public forums, identical maps both times, and the decision is made.
You would have public forum input and written input.
You could add the phone call if you wish.
The second one I understand I'm looking at is you have a map developed by the administrative team, no public forum.
the maps are made public and then you take written feedback from the community on those maps.
Relevant feedback in both cases is considered, and then a final map is put out and that's it.
The third one is administration looks at the data, puts out a map, and say, that's it. No input.
So, so what, so, so, I mean that, those are the three, three things that forms I see.
It's just a matter of which one we want to use.
A is more like what we're currently doing, what we did last time.
But what's going to be important is whatever process we stick to, we decide upon, we've got to stick to it.
and when we have a timeline for input
ends, if that date says ends now, it's got to end then.
So keep the current process, but stick to the timelines.
The current process has the public forums.
It has the written communication.
Another process, comparative process, is maps to develop.
No public forums, but you allow the written input within a timeline.
You make your decision, final decision.
The third one, put a map out, and that's it.
men
pre-proc clarifying actually number one
i'm talking about eliminating that software commendation
part of the current process
well you're saying the same here is that we put a map out but a map out so same
at both times right next exactly exactly at
though really it's not one public forums spread over two days so people can be
accommodated that's all it's okay
and and that is different from the current process right but it's just
still does have still the two public forums.
Madam President, a clarifying question kind of on option B as well.
On the map developed by the administrative team,
and then you're going to ask for written feedback,
in the matter of transparency,
is there a way to consolidate that feedback and be able to share it?
that's where they lived in so go ahead please I'm glad you asked that question I think most
every board meeting last time we brought where we kind of stood as far as as far as getting numbers
were and anybody could take a look at all that information including any comment that was made
so you had the opportunity if you wanted to to go in there and look through all thousand comments
or whatever it may have been to see where people stood, as well as the statistics.
Once you completed the survey yourself, you could see where you stood in those statistics.
Madam President, I think that option B or 2 would probably be the one that I would be leaning towards.
I mean, no, we're not voting tonight, but I think that would be the one I would go towards.
I second that.
Madam President, I would lean towards option 1.
I know we're not voting but I would lean towards option one.
And I guess it's apparent where I am.
Option one.
Option one.
And Mr. Mahalski.
Go ahead.
I'll let you shoot first.
You want me to go first?
Okay.
So, just kind of, I think this is a case where I'm just going to go with the
somewhat of a beneficiary of not having gone through this process before.
Because I kind of came in here with no preconceived notions,
really just to kind of take in all the information and really.
So kind of where I am right now with that is I do feel like we need, again,
I go back to that concept of effective community input that I spoke about earlier.
And I want to make sure that it is effective and not counterproductive
or reactive from what it seemed to be when we went through this last year.
What I like about option B, I think, is where I will fall here.
And what I like about it is I do think it gives the opportunity
to give more volume of relevant input.
We can have community forums, but you're limited in how long you can speak and how many people show up and this, that, and the other.
And I think it lends itself to a smaller group, but maybe not the majority, that is very well organized to come in and exert a lot of influence.
where if you are soliciting emails and maybe some phone calls through a hotline
and I think you can get greater participation and I think you can build
a consensus on a larger population and then people are able to participate kind
of at their leisure when whenever whenever they have the time to do so so
that's kind of where I think I am right now
Mr. Huckabee.
All right.
I'm truly torn because I thought one was three whenever y'all were talking because he went backwards,
and so that messed me up.
So I'm torn between one and two since one is the dual format thing.
And the reason why I'm torn is because I've seen what three does.
I've seen how effective three is.
I understand the need for one.
Two, I like the only thing that bothers me is some people may feel that they're not heard.
And that's where, you know, I want them to feel like they're heard.
But, of course, they're getting heard.
and Brian kind of hit the nail on the head, the fact that if we had the forum,
even if we have the tables where there's seven people at a table,
you're still only going to get one thing out of that table.
And when we had seven tables, we're still going to get seven inputs
instead of 137 or 1,000 inputs, either way.
I would like some way that that input is tabulated or correlated to where we can see it so that the public knows that it was actually taken and considered.
And if that's the case, then I'll go with two.
I think I would I really liked what Mr.
Mahalski said about effective communication and we all of us were
around although all of us not at this day us at the last time when you're
right Mr. Mahalski some people get very organized and become a very loud voice
for one issue that rezoning is just a very very very difficult process it's
you're making somebody mad and when you make a change you're switching who's mad
you're not really fixed there is no fix to the problem it's trading who's
unhappy and it isn't it is unpleasant so I just mr. Mahalski the way you talked
about that was exactly what I was feeling that the effective communication
hearing from everyone having a transparent way to make that available
so that people see these are the things that were said this is what was taken
into consideration everyone was heard having a hotline that is not about
delivering information but only collecting information not making any
kind of promises or or or decisions it's just taking in information I think it
would be very important on us getting the information into everyone's hands
those who are affected and then those who are not and you have a plan for that
up here but through campuses we learned recently from a great group who helped
us that the website and email is not the only way or the most effective way but
but to go into campuses, especially elementary campuses,
driving that information in there so that people are aware how to communicate back to us.
It may not be that public forum is the most effective communication,
and those were the words that have hit me the most tonight,
is effective communication and hearing from our community.
It's all about community engagement.
It must be effective.
Dr. Proctor.
I'm not at all saying we should not do everything that we would do in B.
I think we should do everything that we do in B.
The whole nine yards.
I would agree with that. I don't think it's an either or.
Yeah, I don't think it's an either or.
But have the opportunity and not waited one way or the other.
If somebody has a good idea, whether they say it, whether we read it, whether they call it in, it's a good idea.
If someone has a bad idea, whether they write it, phone it, or say it, it's a bad idea.
So I'm kind of the all of the above.
I'm not discounting, taking, you know.
and and you can I think you can separate the noise and clutter from from what's
real you know doing doing a process dr. Proctor I I agree that taking in all the
information is good the public forum with a microphone where people speak in
public offers something that to doesn't and that's destructive not instructive
not not constructive and that's the part that we watched the last couple of times this happened
it fractured our community in ways that still are not healed and that's the part that if we could
cause people if we could be ensured that people would treat each other with respect and that they
would speak about topics and not emotions and not divide our communities and our and our neighbors
I'd be all for all of it. Well I think he's ever running the meeting needs to
keep the person on tap. It doesn't just happen at the meetings Dr. Proctor it's on
social media it's in the neighborhoods people are wrapping hate-filled signs
around neighborhood entrances they are threatening people Dr. Proctor it
happens outside of this room and that's the part that we have to have a
responsibility in my mr. Huckabee though the option that I could see in be but
not so much be a form but once we have everything have have a meeting to where
we present it I guess you would say and not so much a feedback but let them see
what we have the data you know what was the data we started with what was the
data we got and this is what we're going to do that that will you know you know
that's not going to make everybody happy but at least they get to see it and hear
it from us and it's not on a piece of paper or something but I understand the
issues of the the form because when they caught me out there I mean I had three
neighborhoods grabbed me and everyone on each shoulder and one in front and and
everybody had their opinion and and no no they weren't the same but I tried to
act like I wasn't nervous but it was it was funny they came to a consensus out
there but once we got in here it was it was not and that was kind of I mean I
actually had all three of them agree right out there on that front porch but
But once it got in here, they didn't agree.
And so I don't know.
I want them to see that this is a deal that is taken seriously,
that we do listen to them and we do take the information in and show them the information.
I'm just not sure if we could trust them to be on their best behavior.
It's not a lack of input.
It's the way they will input to us.
That's what we need to decide.
Mr. Fraley?
I think we need to make certain something's clear here,
that among the seven of the trustees I've heard tonight,
no one is discounting public input at all.
It's just what's the most effective way to get there.
And so from the staff's perspective, from what they've shared with me,
in the past staff has had to literally type in the feedback from the public forums that they get,
and that is posted and that's responded to.
And then they also have posted written communications sent in that were typed in or whatever,
and folks can look at that to kind of see where we are.
Social media is an amazing thing.
It can be used for a lot of good things,
along with the current uses of a lot of it, though.
So no one's talking about not having public input.
It's just the form that's utilized for that public input
being the most effective means that we can possibly find.
And we could give them Dr. Proctor's phone number.
Dr. Proctor, we could give everybody your phone number,
and they could call you.
I think everybody does have mine.
I think they have mine too.
If you can find them through email, that might help.
Okay.
I'm hearing...
Can I say that option three is off the table, and that's a decision with no input?
No, that's off the table.
I don't like that anyway.
So it's do we have the public forum or do we have the electronic, the virtual forum, I should say.
That seems to be what we're looking at.
But either way, it is to get input, and that's where we are.
And you have in mind, Mr. Gannell, a way to make the online public forum available
so that it's a transparency measure that people who are hurt,
So if someone says, well, you didn't hear my concern, we can show that, yes, we heard the concern.
It was taken, and all of that will be very transparent and available.
They can even take a look and see where their concern is and everybody else's.
Okay.
Trustees, how do we feel about the transparency of online input, hotline input?
Hotline and electric for one vote.
Yeah.
Yeah. Will the hotline be then transcribed or put into categories, or how will that work if we do that?
What we'll have to do there is, you know, take notes the best we can,
try to categorize it when we talk to them and say, okay, what is your concern?
It may be distance. You know, it may be program. It may be whatever.
So we can kind of take a look to see if there's, you know, indicators out there that makes us relook something
something that we were doing.
So just to have someone to talk for 30 minutes
because they're unhappy with where they are,
that doesn't help me with where I need to get to be.
So I think it needs to be at least a facilitated discussion
where we hear them, but we try to get it into context
so I can do something with the information.
Madam President.
Mr. DeBrow.
Will the hotline be recorded?
We don't know at this point, but it sounds like we can probably do that.
What you need to understand though is that these aren't too many conversations that have been recorded.
These aren't conversations that are always cogent and focused.
These aren't conversations that are always about the issue.
sometimes it's a personal attack about whatever and all that and it's not that
we want to take that away from anybody but again an expectation that if you
have a hotline number you can call into that that becomes your one-on-one public
forum and typically it's not the folks they want to be heard yes but the
threshold of being heard is did you do what I told you said I want it and if
if you can't do that and without having some kind of means of folks seeing where everybody
else is, then there's no context that a lot of folks don't have.
I think that was what he said about he wanted to facilitate the discussion with him so that
he could keep it on track and keep it to the information that was pertinent instead of
just going on and on and on?
I'm perfectly fine with input.
That's what we're here for, input from our community.
We're here to serve them.
I'm okay with input.
What my concern is, words that are said that incite other people
or hurt other people.
And when you have a hotline, you're bringing in information,
but it isn't something that's causing harm
and being destructive to someone else.
that it but you're not in a room with with lots of people being hurt do sorry
had a thought and now you can always tell when I stop myself from saying
something and then it makes me well you know just from what I'm hearing it's not
unanimous thing but it seems to me that the value is you want input yes but uh you feel that the
public forum is a form that has not been most effective that's what i was very destructive
mr fraley is that our the option one is what we have used in the past for the most part it has a
modification where we're not changing the map every time but it's still the same format we've used in
the past and after last time we all kind of said oh my we have to find a new process and so this
new process deserves a chance to and it's been used effectively in other districts
i i think we can be open to a new process and we will see that our community what they tell us
that yes we were heard and we had input and and let's i'd be interested in trying this process and
seeing how it goes and it's not cutting off input it's it's it's including it's
including engagement from our community and a president I would say if we moved
with option two and that seems to be the majority here that the hotline becomes
vitally important for those that don't have internet access for those that will
not sit down and write for those that are extremely busy and just don't have
have the time to get in front of the computer and do it that the communication of that hotline number
and that input from that hotline becomes vitally important to getting the largest percentage of
our community involved in this process as humanly possible I agree with that well I would add if I
may have a friend who had business and it was all based on telephone or whatever they had a framework
work for which they received feedback. So it's not a hello, go at me. It was a hello,
here are the questions we need to have answered. And it stays focused that way. Otherwise,
the person that will be abused is the person taking that phone call.
Okay. Are we good? Half a majority. So we'll do option two, where we will
bring those things to us.
Everyone's good with the December
decision, right? Yes.
Excellent. Thank you. That's what I said
last time. I was right.
Okay.
What else do you need from us?
The scope of work is the high school seven.
The scope of work for high school seven
is what I intend to be moving
forward unless you direct me to do something else
tonight.
We're good with high school seven.
The interesting
conversations I think we will see is what interested me when Seven Lakes
opened were the number of 11th graders who really really really reached out to
us and said please let us go to the new high school please open with an 11th
grade and it is with all of the options and AP and orchestra and all those
things that 11th graders really want to be a part of just almost impossible to
do I don't know I mean that's not a decision for now but I remember a lot of
children wanted to move as 11th graders because they wanted an opportunity to be
a part of something that wasn't the largest graduating class of you know
ever so I was very surprised to hear 11th graders wanting to to move over to
Seven Lakes so you're right mr. Huckabee there will be a lot of children anxious
to get a Tom can you scroll back to that possible timeline
based on this timeline then we're going to be bringing our recommendation or the
option we're looking at at the October 29th board meeting we'll try to have
something put together to be put out prior to that is that possible there's a
couple of things yeah obviously we've been looking at the numbers as kids of
as the numbers have come in this year so so we have some idea you know the peep
snapshot really gives you that revalidation and then the demographic
update gives you the context if you're suggesting superintendent that we try to
bring something two weeks forward I'm before that I'm prepared to do that and
so I think that's the the board meeting of the 15th where we could actually have
have an option for you to look at even before the demographic data and then we
can see if anything changes it because of the demographic presentation mr.
canal do you have the current population of Seven Lakes High School off the top
of your head it's like 4,100 or thereabouts that's not about right Scott
Yeah, I thought it was just over 4,000.
And you have in your folder somewhere that Mrs. Fox and many others on here
care very much about pier splintering and feeder patterns before you get to come to us.
Thanks.
Because of the research that shows how important that is, not because Mrs. Fox cares.
You know, pier splintering is something that I don't anticipate happening with high school 7 rezoning.
Peter just gave me the October 1 numbers, and they're 3955.
Mr. Gunnell, what will we be looking at as the opening population for 7?
Yeah, good question.
I want to keep it above what you opened Seven Lakes with which was 800 so I anticipate opening it at a thousand or more
I know there's some people that question why don't we open it with 9 through 12
A lot of people don't get the logistics of trying to do that, the impossibility and the astronomical cost that that would put on the district to do that.
So, yeah, I was just curious as to what that first round of numbers was going to look like.
Any other questions for Mr. Gannell?
I appreciate very much the attitudes of these board members and the willingness to take another night out of we've been doing lots and lots of work.
And thank you, Mr. Canal, for a good presentation.
And I appreciate the candidness and the values that you show to each other, to all of us.
And thanks for caring enough about our district to do the hard work.
Okay.
Having no further business.
7.04. This meeting is
adjourned.
7.04.
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